---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 04:31 PM ----------
---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 04:31 PM ----------
Last edited by Martoshi; 2013-01-28 at 04:32 PM.
You can't force people who don't want to raid to raid though. You went through the exact same thing he did? Why do you people transfer off realms to play with friends who don't want to show up for raids? Some of their core group stopped showing for raids in MOP, this happens in every single guild especially at the start of a new expac and ESPECIALLY in 25 man. Why then do you take social (and bad, his words) players who don't want to raid into raiding when they feel forced to? You guys seem to be doing it wrong. Get people who WANT to raid, plenty exist. Don't try and force guildies and friends to fill your raid spots when shit goes south. Thats just a horrible, horrible idea.
He also talked about doing normal DS and then falling apart in MOP, that's not exactly what I would call high quality raiding. You could pug 8/8 heroic DS pretty easily towards the end, forget normal modes. Seems to be you are just blaming a terrible raid model (what EXACTLY is terrible about it, I'm curious) because you're having a hard time finding good raiders and not blame the actual "raiders" you're recruiting. It happens, even top guilds go through dry spells. The solution isn't to fill your raid with shitty friends who play the game socially to chat; quality raiders are still out there and still love raiding they're not dead.
Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-01-28 at 04:42 PM.
We never reformed, nor did we die mid Cataclysm. We found new people. Maybe every 5th or so was the 'right kind' and stuck around for a long time. As of this minute, we're a few people short of having a decent roster again, but the same core team of officers and loyal raiders are still there
I wonder why you would think I'd bullshit anyone on this subject? What would be my motive you think?
Last edited by Algot; 2013-01-28 at 07:33 PM.
You can't convince people to join the raid if they don't want to, you have to replace them with more motivated raiders or find a new guild.
Let me guess, you're on a high population realm. What happened is that as the new raid model and crappy content started killing guilds, the few remaining skilled raiders started to migrate to a handful of high population servers. If you're on one of those, you won't have a clue what's happening in the majority of the game. But just wait, the same fundamental forces that wiped out raiding on the majority of servers will inevitably hit the high population ones as well, it's only a matter of time.
I doubt anything will be wiped out in the near future though. New tier around the corner. New cycles of guilds and players lining up to get a piece of the action.
The game won't last forever, but I think that deserves a completely different thread
Being in a raiding guild is more than just raiding when you want to. Sometimes you have to realize that others are relying on you as well. And this is what most people can't grasp. When new content hits, everyone and their mother comes out of the woodwork killing each other for a raid spot. But once some time passes, the "sorry guys, my dog is in the hospital" comments start coming up. You'll notice that rarely anything ever comes up when content is new. You need to always be looking at recruitment. You have to have a bench. Not designated players, but more than you would need. And think about moving servers.
There's a reason only about 10% of the playerbase ever raids or ever HAS raided before, and you can't chalk all of that up to lack of skill or "not wanting to invest time", or whatever.
---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 11:31 AM ----------
If you expect people to stay after clearing the same boring raid for the 20th time instead of focusing purely on progression then you should really think again. It's also Blizzards fault for creating this environment where all your raiders have already seen the whole raid multiple times. It is not motivating to go through it that many times.[COLOR="red"]
Last edited by Gilian; 2013-01-29 at 10:41 AM.
“Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech.” - Noam Chomsky
If I've learned something over these years as a raider, raid leader and GM it's that DONT RAID WITH FRIENDS.
People suck, finding people suck, everything about being an officer/GM/RL suck, dont do it!
Tenser @ EU-Auchindoun
Officer of <WTFlux> 2-day-weekend-raiding-guild, T14: 8/16HC, T15: 2/13H
Warlock POV - streaming raids on sat/sun 10am-2pm GMT+1
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome." -- Samuel Johnson
People should want to raid with you. If you have to 'trick' them into it, their heart isn't in it and it will only produce disappointment. My advice would be to find a group of like-minded individuals if that's what you want out of this game. This may mean leaving your current guild if recruitment isn't possible. You simply have to weigh what's more important to you and your time - raiding with these people and being in the situation you're in, or finding a new group with the same interests and mindsets.
"Tomorrow night we will do clearing farm bosses, progression the day after"