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  1. #1

    Questions from a prospective subber

    Sorry for starting a new thread!

    My friend and i have been playing F2P for a few weeks. She is not even a StarWars fan (in fact she hates the franchise, but she loves playing smuggler and sith warrior), but likes the game and we are considering subscribing (because F2P really feels like a demo with all the restrictions).

    There are a couple of things that bother me, though:
    -A lot of people left the game, saying that there was nothing to do after you level capped. We're loving the leveling, but... what is there to do in endgame exactly? How many raids? We are also WoW players, but nothing beyond casual raiders. The people who ran out of content, would they be just hardcore raiders? or would a casual also feel the lack of content?
    -I've read that the expansion doesn't have much content (although it's only 10$ for subscribers, so i guess that isn't too bad, i still remember the mini-expansions in ff11 which were just a quest-chain for 10$). And there is no continuation of the class-stories. That really troubles me, if it is a trend for the future.
    -I've read there's dailies... just how grindy are they? Is it better/worse than MoP dailies?
    -As for flashpoint queues... how bad are they? Between us two, we're probably going to have either a tank or healer at all times.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    If you are looking to play casually then leveling/storyline and pvp is probably your best bet. There is no LFR system in SWTOR, most of the raiding is normal style guild based stuff. The complaints of lack of content stem from early in the games life and there is more available now but you will find commiting to a raid guild is recommended.
    Flash point queues aren't too bad. The LFG system is limited to same server so you will get longer queues than WoW but not by too much, having a tank and a healer will certainly help.
    There are a lot of dailies in the likes of ilum etc but they will take you a lot longer (for the most part) than the likes of WoW's simplistic quick casual style dailies. The rewards from them also take a significant amount of time to earn, eg 1 token per daily, 200 tokens per item in some cases. Generally you will out gear a lot of the daily rewards by doing hardmode FP's or pvp anyway.

  3. #3
    Endgame there's PvP or PvE. Don't discount PvP right away. For some reason, I know a lot of casual PvE players in WoW who really enjoy PvP in Swtor. Not entirely sure what's so different.

    For PvE, there's a bunch of hard mode flashpoints, one extrahard flashpoint, and 4 raids now. All raids have story mode and normal mode, and three of them have heroic mode. Each raid is 4-5 boss, and is pretty fun. The first two raids have a Raid Finder for story mode.

    Dailies are pretty grindy, but there are 4 different areas, so you can rotate through them. Or you can just not bother with them, the only dailies you really should do are the ones on Belsavis that give you weapons for your companions.

    Flashpoint queues are about 15-20 min for a single dps. I think tanks and healers are much better, 5 mins or less. So if you always have one, you should be good.

    I think it might be worth subbing for a month to have a look at your options without worrying about limits. If you decide not to renew, your account will still be a Preferred account, which gets rid of a lot of the worst restrictions of F2P.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Sorry for starting a new thread!

    My friend and i have been playing F2P for a few weeks. She is not even a StarWars fan (in fact she hates the franchise, but she loves playing smuggler and sith warrior), but likes the game and we are considering subscribing (because F2P really feels like a demo with all the restrictions).

    There are a couple of things that bother me, though:
    -A lot of people left the game, saying that there was nothing to do after you level capped. We're loving the leveling, but... what is there to do in endgame exactly? How many raids? We are also WoW players, but nothing beyond casual raiders. The people who ran out of content, would they be just hardcore raiders? or would a casual also feel the lack of content?
    - if you are just going to raid, there is enough to do especially if you are taking it casually

    - currently there are 4 raids, Eternity Vault, Karragas Palace, Denova & Asation (which is also the order regarding difficulty)

    - casuals who raid since start will find a lack of content because we didn't get many raids in the past but also because other raidcontent require 16 people and are again a good step harder than 8 man

    - casual guilds will work on defeating Asation Hardmode and Denova Hardmode/ Nightmare


    Quote Originally Posted by Splatter View Post
    If you are looking to play casually then leveling/storyline and pvp is probably your best bet. There is no LFR system in SWTOR, most of the raiding is normal style guild based stuff. The complaints of lack of content stem from early in the games life and there is more available now but you will find commiting to a raid guild is recommended.
    - you don't need a raid guild as weekly raids and groupfinder raids are fairly common (on my server), however if you like regular raids with a fixed spot then a guild is the way to go

    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    -I've read that the expansion doesn't have much content (although it's only 10$ for subscribers, so i guess that isn't too bad, i still remember the mini-expansions in ff11 which were just a quest-chain for 10$). And there is no continuation of the class-stories. That really troubles me, if it is a trend for the future.
    - the continuation of your personal class story will be a combined to a faction story (how good/ bad they implement this remains to be seen)

    - currently we have no real information but bits and pieces, Bioware likes to shroud themselves in mystery only to unravel their "big" surprise which usually either isn'st that big of a surprise or isn't taken as enthusiastic as Bioware people make it sound like..

    - they have a 6 weeks schedule for new&free "content" apart from this "expansion"....

    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    -I've read there's dailies... just how grindy are they? Is it better/worse than MoP dailies?
    - there are currently 4 daily areas (Belsavis, Illum, Black Hole, Section X)

    - Illum takes around 20mins, Black Hole around 30-40 (including the weekly, deduct 15 minutes for the other 6 days), haven't done Section X nor Belsavis in some time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Splatter View Post
    There are a lot of dailies in the likes of ilum etc but they will take you a lot longer (for the most part) than the likes of WoW's simplistic quick casual style dailies. The rewards from them also take a significant amount of time to earn, eg 1 token per daily, 200 tokens per item in some cases. Generally you will out gear a lot of the daily rewards by doing hardmode FP's or pvp anyway.
    - I doubt that you will outlevel current BiS (Dread Guard relics) so fast, just don't spend all your daily comms on "low gear" but save it up to get relics which actually can push you a lot.... for implants/ ears/ armor/ weapon you go for raids/ buy it with black hole comms

    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    -As for flashpoint queues... how bad are they? Between us two, we're probably going to have either a tank or healer at all times.

    Thanks!
    - tank/ healer are always a good asset to get a quick group, however it can be that on one night you have many tanks and therefore the queue time for your tank could be longer (though not as long as queuing as dd), I had waiting times from "instantly open" to 30mins, depending on the class role

    Quote Originally Posted by Splatter View Post
    Flash point queues aren't too bad. The LFG system is limited to same server so you will get longer queues than WoW but not by too much, having a tank and a healer will certainly help.
    - healer/ tanks usually queue for under 5 min. , most of the time it would open instantly..... not sure how you can get any faster than that (instantly)

  5. #5
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    To give a completely honest perspective and not one that is trying to convince you to just subscribe:

    1) yes, as a casual player you will run out of content quickly. There are only a handful of daily areas with no reputations associated with them. It's just grind for nothing but currency and do the few raids available. Gear comes quickly and easily and you will be bored fast.

    2) If you just plan to level alts, mess around, and pvp, then the content is just right.

    3) While MoP runs everything through dailies, they have a great design and flow to them. SWTOR dailies are spread out all over the place and have no daily 'areas' like in Mists. Dailies in this game will likely be a nightmare to you as they are more tedious and less rewarding.

    4) The expansion doesn't have enough info out to properly judge it, but it seems like a joke at this point. It was basically promised to be free for subscribers and now has a fee...not a great sign.

    5) Queues are awesome. If you are a tank or healer it will be even better.
    BAD WOLF

  6. #6
    Thanks for all the replies, they are very helpful!

  7. #7
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Are you both genuinely F2P? As in, you haven't spent any money at all to get preferred status?

    If that's the case, I would recommend spending at least $5.00 a piece in order to gain preferred status. The restrictions for those accounts are much better than completely F2P. If you would like to play casually, it seems like it would be a good thing to try out first. The only thing you will be missing out on at max level is unlimited loot from FPs, which you won't really need if you are casual, and lowest level raiding, which you won't need if you are casual.

    Take a look here: http://www.swtor.com/free/features and see if preferred looks a little better.
    BAD WOLF

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    To give a completely honest perspective and not one that is trying to convince you to just subscribe:

    1) yes, as a casual player you will run out of content quickly. There are only a handful of daily areas with no reputations associated with them. It's just grind for nothing but currency and do the few raids available. Gear comes quickly and easily and you will be bored fast.
    not really imo
    I've played this casually, and found I had a lot of fun, and NEVER touched a raid yet. Taking my time with questing. Taking my time going back and clearing quests I missed/skipped on planets. Looking to do weekly world boss or mount rewarding world boss quests. Dailies aren't that bad, especially if you are just taking your time, except, that damn marksman drop in section X used to be a chore (haven't been on for a month or two, tried WoW out again). The grind for currency is a bit high, but no different than locking the gear/items behind a artificial barrier like a reputation. Compare getting 200 tokens for a mount or an item, you can get something every week, while it takes (had taken) 2 months to get exalted with a faction in WoW.

    Anyone playing solely for gearing, is missing the point of a game, especially playing one casually. It should be about enjoying the content yourself, or with (a) friend(s). If you play casually, you most likely don't play solely for gear, and won't get bored as fast as Kitty. If you want more progression, with less of the WoW-grindy feel, Rift is a great game, and I'm sure Kitty would agree.

    2) If you just plan to level alts, mess around, and pvp, then the content is just right.
    yep, messing around at a casual pace with a friend, this game is nearly perfect (minus some bad decisions from EA, overlooking that, fine). My wife and I went to WoW for the last month, and can't stand it any longer. She happens to have the 'omg get to 90 and raid-itis' in that game, so leveling is more of a chore than fun, and she can't stand pandaria, and I suffered from release daily burnout, and ... I lost the thrill for my two favorite classes (druid/warlock). All both of us thought while trying to level new toons (with full heirlooms) is ... ugh, leveling takes so long, we are bored, and we both wanted to play SWtOR again, despite us being pissed at the Life Day EA-grinch-y-ness. She is also excited about the xpac's ability to have her female toons be involved with female companions.

    Most of all, a game is what you make of it, barring a absolutely poorly made game, or a game not in a genre you like (I could never enjoy Halo/CoD, hate FPSers; I loved Beyond Good & Evil, some didn't like the gameplay ... Duke Nukem Forever was nearly universally hated)

    3) While MoP runs everything through dailies, they have a great design and flow to them. SWTOR dailies are spread out all over the place and have no daily 'areas' like in Mists. Dailies in this game will likely be a nightmare to you as they are more tedious and less rewarding.
    I don't feel killing a large animal and it not dropping a tongue, or a bird, and it not having feathers is great design. They've gotten better with flow, but, flow comes down to more or less a quest hub, and clearing stuff together. This is EXACTLY what most of the daily hubs are like in SWtOR. A central point to collect quests, then go around the zone and complete them, with bonus quests that pop up for extra creds.

    The rewards are the tokens and creds. In WoW, the reward is rep and gold. In WoW, flying mounts decrease the time involved, and people who are accustomed to flying, would find going on the ground would make the dailies feel like a 'nightmare' and tedium (if you read the forums, people already feel they are tedious, and if you did shado-pan, some of those quests are a nightmare ).

    4) The expansion doesn't have enough info out to properly judge it, but it seems like a joke at this point. It was basically promised to be free for subscribers and now has a fee...not a great sign.
    Not happy about them charging, I'd have preferred it given to subs 'in good faith' for being dedicated ... such as, if you had either a record of 9+ months of sub time, or willing to commit to 6 months sub, you get it free, if you commit to 12 mos sub, you get the next mini-x-pac free as well. Though, $10 isn't big, and I believe there is claim to continuing class stories, and there is the chance for your female twi'lek warrior to date your female twi'lek slave (*speculation on specific dating combo).
    I can agree that I want more free stuff, but, don't we all?

    5) Queues are awesome. If you are a tank or healer it will be even better.
    Very rarely, at any level, have I ever found queues to be too long, but I could be remembering a couple bad experiences. I know there was a couple time people did poorly in an instance, and it took a long time to backfill, but the other person that stayed was friendly and it made the wait not so noticeable.

    ----
    Here is my opinion on the people that leave a game because 'nothing to do'. It comes down to how they consume the game, and their expectations. WoW releases 1 raid every 6-12 months, or, basically 1-2 raids a year. SWtOR has been out 1 year, had 4 raids. That is about right in comparison to WoW. Hardcore people, are bored with WoW too. The end wing bosses were downed a long time ago for the best guilds in the world. The fights are overly tuned, because they design fights based on things like DXE/DBM, and fights being on PTR and analyzed before they ever hit the live servers. WoW of today is much more brutal in heroic raiding than it has ever been, but at the expense of (some) fun, for intensity (though not mutually exclusive). The thrill of accomplishment is high, but fleeting.

    There is this obsession by a lot, to skip the leveling process as a race to max level and clear the max level content as fast as possible. (MoP bosses lasting 1 week). That leaves the majority of the games to be obsolete or pointless to people with this attitude. I think this is from years of questing WoW, and most skipping quest text. As they've nerfed xp needed, you even finish zones before you complete their story. This creates a habit. This habit is brought to other games.

    If you play casually though, you take your time leveling, in WoW, reading quest text (I recommend checking out WoWCrendor on YouTube, he is doing leveling in WoW and reading quest text as he plays) ... and the process of leveling ends up being less about how fast you can get to max level, and more about the lore, the environment, and why you are collecting alligator teeth, and less of just, killing wildlife for the hell of it.

    This relates to SWtOR. The voice acting, and LS/DS choices engage you in the lore/story of the game. Some only care for the story once, just as some people watch a movie/show once. They like alt play-thoughs less (though they might find doing the opposing faction a bit more engaging). Others can find enjoyment no matter how many times they go through.

    This is not a SWtOR only issue though. Outside of vanilla WoW and Northrend, you nearly have no choice which path you take either. No game has unlimited freedom, though SWtOR has a pretty restrictive path, though, I've found, as long as you queue at ALL for FPs, and you do all Heroic 2/4s and area heroics ... you can skip planets of your choice, thus, you can create a sense of choice in questing path, if you so wish.

    Again, a game is only as fun, as you allow yourself to have. That goes with anything. I'll use something completely unrelated, for it is the idea of it that matters. Let's say a friend asks you to go bowling. If you decide to go, how you approach the night, will affect how you feel about the experience. If you think negatively, bitch about how bowling sucks, and focus on that ... you'll probably not have fun, make the night slightly less fun for the ones around you, and have a bad memory of the event, most likely telling others about how you disdain bowling and it is a shitty activity. If you go with the idea of you are going to have a fun night with friends ... you might not think bowling is amazing, but you'll reflect positively on the night, you'll have a good time, and even though you don't care for the 'sport', you'd probably talk fondly of it and go again.

    This comes down to attitude and perspective. A pre-disposed aura of negativity, in outlook and mood, will destroy anything. In fact, this is why my wife and I have decided to not touch WoW for a very long time. We initially think we'll enjoy ourselves every time we go back, but we just can't. Within a few days/week, we just have too much of the bad memories, and the community makes the game even worse, from our experiences.

    Community is one of the best things I find in SWtOR and Rift. There are far less, in my experience, hateful, selfish, entitled players than in WoW. Don't have to give examples, the forums are filled with it. I can just say, group wipes seem to not inspire the same nerd rage in these games, than in the other. Loot doesn't seem to be auto-needed either. People seem to help and be a bit more respectful, in the grand scheme in these smaller communities. Could be just a difference of 1 mil vs 10 mil subs, but it 'feels' to be more than just that.

    Try not to worry so much about the future, but if you are having fun now. I'm trying my best to do this, as well as ignore the 'greed' aspect EA irked me with, from the shitty Life Day bullshit. Before that, I thought cartel market was great, and good for the game. Not happy about $10 for a planet ... when already paying a sub ... but in that regard, not happy with any game that charges a sub, to charge for an xpac ... which is why I like that at some point, Rift offered Storm Legion for free if you subbed for a year (sub pays for content, as it should).

    But, I used to, and try to look at it this way ... am I enjoying the game? If yes, then why not support it. I still think, out of any MMO, Trion/Rift deserves the sub the most; but, I DO enjoy SWtOR, and in that respect, I don't mind paying a sub, to play a game I enjoy. I just wish the funds went more into customer service and content production. They are trying, with a promise of 4-6 week content rollout, even if it is small, if they can keep that promise, it is a big step forward.

    Just 1 month of a sub, you can pre-order the xpac and get preferred status (6 toons per server, more action bars, etc). If you look at it this way, you spend $25, and essentially break even ($20 for non sub xpac; $5 in cartel coins gets you preferred I think?) and you get to see if it is worth it for you to be subbed. You -can- unlock most of the sub stuff through credits, though don't know how daunting of a task that would be.

    The one thing I'd like to see with pre-order of this new xpac, would be access to the pre-order vendor (yellow-black crystals).

    I'd recommend finding yourself, if you haven't already, a large social guild. Ones that are active. Doing that, you can nearly always guarantee to have enough people on, to do your dailies in a group of 4, which greatly increases the speed and enjoyment of them. I don't mind doing all the dailies; but I enjoy it much more when I group up ahead of time and knock it out while chatting it up. Isn't that the point of the MMORPG genre? To experience the content having fun with friends? Not to race through the RPG part solo, to raid for gearing -yourself- up, and sit in solo queues? Some see MMO as just a bunch of strangers together; I see it more of a place that you can play with several friends/family ... more than just a co-op game on a console, and less of a wal-mart full of random people you don't care about (CRZ looking at you).


    In the end, you have to really decide how you want to play. If your enjoyment is worth the sub fee. Some people play more hardcore than they realize. Some people have more time to invest in playing more seriously than others.

    I look at playing casual as ... you don't have the time to focus without distraction. My personal example is ... my wife and I have a newborn. We can commit to 4 hour raiding nights 4 nights a week any longer. We care more about the journey, than the destination now. We can barely complete a game on LoL without needing to tend to our baby (and thus prefer bot games usually, so one of us can change a diaper/feed, without ruining the game for others).

    SWtOR, imo, is about the journey, and luckily, the community in my experiences has been very helpful and supportive (besides a couple poorly designed daily objectives, one in black hole, other in section x). The great community makes the journey even better. In fact, with the conversations and instanced areas on planets, it makes it even easier to tend to the baby, because, we can 'pause' the game, and not worry about respawns in the instanced area or mid conversation (start conversation separately if we are grouped, we can both walk away without concern).

    I find the instances, hell, the world to be fun and enjoyable, and a nice visual and gameplay feel/change. After years of loving my affliction lock, I felt myself pining for me sorcerer instead. I enjoy the art style of SWtOR, after many years of the more ... cartoony? WoW style (same goes for Rift).


    Kitty's opinions are valid though, don't want them to think I was starting a debate or dismissing them. I just think they are less casual than they may realize, and might have a slightly biased view, dailies are dailies are dailies, in every game; and casuals don't consume content as fast as progressively oriented players ... it is hard to slow down, my wife has had a very hard time in her transition from heroic progression raiding to just having fun, and even a year ago, we both sped through to 50 in this game, less than a week (that was us 'taking it easy'), while now, our pace is much more toned down. Having a kid helped.

    I'd like to see more world events, like the Rakghoul plague. Makes the world feel dynamic and engageing. Would like to see an Op every 3-4 months, and a FP or two in between them.

    I don't care about space combat; in any form, at all. (Current space combat is good enough for me, for some non questing credits/change of pace)



    ----
    So, basically, after a bunch of rambling:

    If you enjoy a game, what more do you need/expect to support them financially (how much fun provided should be purely free in a business model ex: should tickets to disney be free, and you donate what you feel it was worth when leaving, possibly nothing if you so chose?)?

    What does playing casually mean to you?

    When you ask better/worse than MoP dailies; what are the positive and negative things you feel about them? How would they feel better/worse for you so we can compare.

    In WoW, do you raid LFR? Do you raid normal? What is your usual feeling about the rate of consumption in that game? (alternatively, look up the raids on youtube if you like, I showed TfB to my wife and she thought all the portal stuff was a really cool fight design and looked nice as well)

    As far as content, how fast have you been leveling your toons? You both have 2 toons leveled together, how far have you gotten in the couple weeks? Have you done the area and heroic quests while leveling? Have you tried pvp? What is the content you've like the most and the least so far? Are dailies considered content for you (both SWtOR -and- WoW considers dailies as content now)? What about new acquireable companions (like HK)?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Are you both genuinely F2P? As in, you haven't spent any money at all to get preferred status?
    Yes, we are F2P only. I think we are probably going to pay a month to see if we actually sub (i'm interested in breaking the limination of the... well, don't remember the name, the space battles: i did one 3 times trying to beat it, and was baffled that i could only do it 3 times a week...), or if we remain as preferred till endgame. Being altoholic that could take some time.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 05:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    Anyone playing solely for gearing, is missing the point of a game, especially playing one casually. It should be about enjoying the content yourself, or with (a) friend(s). If you play casually, you most likely don't play solely for gear, and won't get bored as fast as Kitty. If you want more progression, with less of the WoW-grindy feel, Rift is a great game, and I'm sure Kitty would agree.
    Yes, we actually tried Rift out for a couple of months. We barely reached 20, we just couldn't get into it. It felt more grindy than WoW, but worst was that between the realistic graphics and the seemingly generic lore, it failed to catch our eye. And i recognise that Rift surpases WoW in many aspects, guess just not for me.
    Our focus so far is leveling, and the story is very compelling... and the voice acting really makes a difference when it comes to quest exposition.
    The LS/DS decisions and the interaction with your companions really got my friend hooked up (i have suggested her to try out KOTOR and DA:O)


    Kitty's opinions are valid though, don't want them to think I was starting a debate or dismissing them.
    I thank you both for the contrast in opinions, this is especially helpful, to know what's ahead, and what we can expect in the future. When i read reviews in Gamefaqs, i try to read both a review with a very high score and a very low score.


    So, basically, after a bunch of rambling:
    If you enjoy a game, what more do you need/expect to support them financially (how much fun provided should be purely free in a business model ex: should tickets to disney be free, and you donate what you feel it was worth when leaving, possibly nothing if you so chose?)?
    Well i basically ask that i spend on it nearly as much time as i spend on WoW. To have a hard time deciding between WoW and SWTOR when i have to decide what to play today. In the past, FFXI, RIFT, LOTRO... have become games i would play on maintenance day (not living in the US, maint would hit my "prime time" lol).

    What does playing casually mean to you?
    Both my friend and I are altoholics. I'm much more of a dungeoneer than her, but i am very laid back. She wants to meet the greater challenges eventually. I would grind LFR in Cata like there was no tomorrow. Definitely never did anything beyond normal raids, though my friend was about to get into a heroic raiding guild once.

    As far as content, how fast have you been leveling your toons? You both have 2 toons leveled together, how far have you gotten in the couple weeks? Have you done the area and heroic quests while leveling? Have you tried pvp? What is the content you've like the most and the least so far? Are dailies considered content for you (both SWtOR -and- WoW considers dailies as content now)? What about new acquireable companions (like HK)?
    I think we are lvl 11 on our Sith duo and 14 on our Republic duo. Not very fast, as you see. We are always clearing all the quests, except PVP ones... neither of us was ever any good at pvp, so i just didn't think to try lol. So far the most engaging content is the exposition of the story. The class quests take the cake. As for dailies... i would only consider dailies as content if there's progression, kinda like the molten front dailies. And yes, companions are content (looking forward seeing HK again haha, though i think they overdid him a bit on KOTOR2, i hope they don't fall in the same mistake).
    Last edited by jotabe; 2013-01-29 at 05:46 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Both my friend and I are altoholics. I'm much more of a dungeoneer than her, but i am very laid back. She wants to meet the greater challenges eventually. I would grind LFR in Cata like there was no tomorrow. Definitely never did anything beyond normal raids, though my friend was about to get into a heroic raiding guild once.


    I think we are lvl 11 on our Sith duo and 14 on our Republic duo. Not very fast, as you see. We are always clearing all the quests, except PVP ones... neither of us was ever any good at pvp, so i just didn't think to try lol. So far the most engaging content is the exposition of the story. The class quests take the cake. As for dailies... i would only consider dailies as content if there's progression, kinda like the molten front dailies. And yes, companions are content (looking forward seeing HK again haha, though i think they overdid him a bit on KOTOR2, i hope they don't fall in the same mistake).

    I never played WoW and in general regarding MMO's, PvP wasn't my "most favourite" part but as I did start some warzones in SWTOR I got really engaged by it. It ended up me doing on my 8th+ toons only class quests/ some flashpoints and mainly pvp from lvl 10 onward. As it's objective based, you can still help your group even you are on a very low lvl and in general I found myself much more attuned to a char because of pvping. As you can't communicate with the other faction there is less "lol nooob" or other rage tells, however I would advise to check out the warzones before you actually join. (the window you can press "queue" has an overview over all maps including a small explanation)

  11. #11
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Yes, we are F2P only. I think we are probably going to pay a month to see if we actually sub (i'm interested in breaking the limination of the... well, don't remember the name, the space battles: i did one 3 times trying to beat it, and was baffled that i could only do it 3 times a week...), or if we remain as preferred till endgame. Being altoholic that could take some time.
    I think from the level of casual combined with the amount of time you want out of this game, a subscription isn't the most economic choice. There is no LFR in SWTOR, so there's no reason to subscribe until you reach max level and 'run out' of things to do. Then you would be able to farm Warzones or Operations as you liked.

    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Our focus so far is leveling, and the story is very compelling... and the voice acting really makes a difference when it comes to quest exposition.
    This also puts emphasis on how much better being a preferred, non subscribing player would be for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    Well i basically ask that i spend on it nearly as much time as i spend on WoW. To have a hard time deciding between WoW and SWTOR when i have to decide what to play today. In the past, FFXI, RIFT, LOTRO... have become games i would play on maintenance day (not living in the US, maint would hit my "prime time" lol).
    I have played WoW since release and I can 100%, non biased tell you there isn't a reason to spend nearly as much time in this game as WoW other than leveling. There aren't 'real' achievements in this game. There are only a handful of things to 'collect' (datacrons and a minor amount of pets/mounts).

    There are really no activities beyond dailies, pvp, space, dungeons, and raiding in this game. We have had very few events, but hopefully those start to become more prevalent...though I'm not sure the game will get any diversity before the 'expansion'.

    Being completely honest, you will probably have a blast playing this game. Don't read my descriptions as a negative position to try and persuade you to not play. I just completely feel that a subscription for what you want out of this game isn't needed. You could save yourself $30 a month, but still do exactly what you want. Ultimately that's for you to decide, but this is a fair opinion I believe.
    BAD WOLF

  12. #12
    I would agree mostly with this:
    I can 100%, non biased tell you there isn't a reason to spend nearly as much time in this game as WoW other than leveling.
    but a slight twist; I cannot see a reason to spend a lot of time in WoW, for any reason, any longer. The last time I enjoyed logging in, was in Wrath. I don't enjoy the WoW leveling experience any longer. I most definitely enjoy the SWtOR leveling experience.

    there IS an 'LFR' in SWtOR though ... it is Story Mode for two of the Ops (raids) an easy mode, of two earlier raids. Very LFR-esque imo.

    If, what you like is leveling and story, then, SWtOR is -the- game of choice. Especially when you are enjoying it with a friend or three. (When I play, I clear non-group quests first, then my wife and I search for people to clear all the heroic/area quests at once, or at least the ones we couldn't do, we usually attempt to duo them while in the area, but some are too punishing for 2 + 2 attempts).

    In the same respect, in WoW, there are no activities beyond dailies, pvp, dungeons, and raiding in the game. Holiday events, if you've been playing for years, are pretty much the same they've always been, catch some torches, toss some torches, light some bonfires, extinguish some bonfires, etc.

    This again, comes down to what I said before: perspective and expectations.

    Kitty is completely correct, but, I'd say, this goes for -any- game.

    I guarantee you Kitty has a better grasp on F2P/Preferred than I do. I personally just sub when I want to play, and cancel when I don't. It is my way of giving back for when I enjoy ... though, I've considered doing the preferred and unlocking with credits, just need to look into it more.

    If you do plan to sub for 1 month, and think you'll play for a while, subbed or not afterwards, buy the xpac while subbed, imo.

    I feel it is a bit shady to have increased level cap with it; and I'm a bit angry at the greed aspect of EA, but I still don't discourage the game, or supporting it. I just stopped giving them a sub for a couple months out of angst, which was a lot better than me bitching in chat about being mad at Life Day

    For me, no other game has come close to the questing and story presented in SWtOR. We even considered KotOR because of it, but watching gameplay vids on youtube, we decided against it (the clicking on boxes during combat thing was a major turnoff, and was on every vid of 1 & 2 we watched).

    The rate at which you are leveling is nice and slow, and it is probably another reason you are enjoying it so much. I'm usually off the first planet and on the fleet within the first evening, even when taking it easy.

    At that pace, preferred seems like the best option as well ... Kitty could probably give you some great suggestions of things to pick up off the GTN/cartel to unlock, that is, even if you need to unlock anything at all. At your level and pace, credits might not be as easy to come by ... but, if you keep a companion out gathering, and find which one gets mats that sell well on your server, you could eventually get ahead I think. I'm sure Kitty can be of great assistance I really don't know about space combat/flashpoint unlocks. Or things like the droid thing that revives you where you are, which to me, would be a pain not to have.

    Definitely, the 15/mo each could be saved if you are enjoying yourself as is, and possibly unlock some stuff with credits once you get income flowing. Trying the sub out for a month, will give you enough time to (get sick of) enjoy the space missions and see how much you run flashpoints, try out unlimited pvp, etc. and see if sub or piecemeal, or neither is preferred for both of you.

    You may find that if she wants you to do flashpoints without her, and you want to raid a bit, a sub may work out better for you, and her being subless ... then technically, through credits (and your monthly free cartel coins for being subbed), you could support unlocks for her, that help her do what she most enjoys, and save her the 15/month


    Keep having fun that is the most important part

  13. #13
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    In the same respect, in WoW, there are no activities beyond dailies, pvp, dungeons, and raiding in the game. Holiday events, if you've been playing for years, are pretty much the same they've always been, catch some torches, toss some torches, light some bonfires, extinguish some bonfires, etc.
    Unless you've unlocked every achievement, have every pet, every mount, have defeated all of the content, maxed every rep, gained everything you can through pvp, and participated in all of the new types of content brought in Mists you can't accurately make this claim.

    Additionally, this is talking about how you would proceed fresh in WoW versus what this game has to offer. You can't say well WoW doesn't have more than this game because you've played it already...that's just not logical. That's like trying to sell someone a cd player because you've already used the extra features on an iPod so there's no need for it anymore.

    This doesn't need to be a game vs game comparison, but regardless of how you look at it SWTOR arguably has the least amount of content than any major title whether they are F2P or otherwise. You will not spend the same amount of time in this game as any other game, simply because there is less to accomplish. It has a very low bar at this point in time.

    Since the majority of that content can be accessed at little to no cost and certainly without a subscription, it makes more sense to not subscribe. Subscriptions are not rewarded or distinguished nearly enough in this game and it is a shame. Once they raise the bar on what a subscription entails I would change my stance. Given the restrictive nature of the rest of the game, I don't see that happening.

    This isn't a post to dissaude someone from playing a game they think is fun, but there's no compelling evidence that this will fill the poster's needs and be worthy of a subscription.
    BAD WOLF

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    I think we are lvl 11 on our Sith duo and 14 on our Republic duo. Not very fast, as you see. We are always clearing all the quests, except PVP ones... neither of us was ever any good at pvp, so i just didn't think to try lol. So far the most engaging content is the exposition of the story. The class quests take the cake. As for dailies... i would only consider dailies as content if there's progression, kinda like the molten front dailies. And yes, companions are content (looking forward seeing HK again haha, though i think they overdid him a bit on KOTOR2, i hope they don't fall in the same mistake).
    Oh, you are very low level. What I would do rather than sub is buy some cartel coins so you get to Preferred status. Then just save your cartel coins until you hit a limit that you absolutely have to remove (ie don't spend it on cosmetic stuff). Subbing really makes the most sense when you hit endgame, and want to participate in endgame activities.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    I think we are lvl 11 on our Sith duo and 14 on our Republic duo. Not very fast, as you see. We are always clearing all the quests, except PVP ones... neither of us was ever any good at pvp, so i just didn't think to try lol. So far the most engaging content is the exposition of the story. The class quests take the cake.
    Best thing to do is take your time, don't rush to 50. Once the storyline ends, that's pretty much it. Dailies aren't as bad as MoP but with all dailies, they are repetitive so it can get to you after a while. I came from WoW to SWTOR in beta and got to end game really quick but because our guild wasn't doing any FPs/Ops, it got boring really quick. I think if you find an active guild, it wont be bad.

    The thing with pvp in SWTOR is that you don't have to be good or well geared to enjoy it, it's more objective based than WoW, in my opinion. I think for me that's what makes it more fun, along with different attacks/moves that make it more exciting, like force push/charge. I didn't like pvp in WoW but love it in SWTOR, so it may be something worth trying, even with F2P you can try it out at least and see if that takes your fancy.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Unless you've unlocked every achievement, have every pet, every mount, have defeated all of the content, maxed every rep, gained everything you can through pvp, and participated in all of the new types of content brought in Mists you can't accurately make this claim.

    Additionally, this is talking about how you would proceed fresh in WoW versus what this game has to offer. You can't say well WoW doesn't have more than this game because you've played it already...that's just not logical. That's like trying to sell someone a cd player because you've already used the extra features on an iPod so there's no need for it anymore.

    This doesn't need to be a game vs game comparison, but regardless of how you look at it SWTOR arguably has the least amount of content than any major title whether they are F2P or otherwise. You will not spend the same amount of time in this game as any other game, simply because there is less to accomplish. It has a very low bar at this point in time.

    Since the majority of that content can be accessed at little to no cost and certainly without a subscription, it makes more sense to not subscribe. Subscriptions are not rewarded or distinguished nearly enough in this game and it is a shame. Once they raise the bar on what a subscription entails I would change my stance. Given the restrictive nature of the rest of the game, I don't see that happening.

    This isn't a post to dissaude someone from playing a game they think is fun, but there's no compelling evidence that this will fill the poster's needs and be worthy of a subscription.
    Well, I do have around 15k achievement points (maybe its 13k? not sure exactly how much). Have become bored with daily farming for raven lord, white hawkstrider, and had spammed for baron's mount. I have 2 90s, and 8 85s (well, a couple are 86/87). I have several toons 30-60 spread across multiple servers. I have close to 200 pets, and most of them before pet battles. I have around 150 mounts. I have about 50 exalted reps (I do have 'the Exalted'), a day or two off of ogri'la exalted, was working on switching factions from scryer to aldor (need about 800 more spider sacs), and was near exalted with most of the MoP ones before I just realized I was spending 2 hours a night on my main, doing just dailies. I've done all the scenarios and raid finder up to the point I stopped logging on. I had my 2 piece on my lock and about a 490 ilvl when I just lost interest in it about 6 weeks into MoP. Switched to druid and was still lacking the thrill with it. I have most professions 600, and I think the few I don't are about 575. I had hunted down a good portion of the new rares, think I had half of them before I kinda lost the drive to hunt them (not hard once you realize when they spawn). The galleon camping and people not tag sharing was hysterical and depressing (I always tag shared though, it is the right thing to do). I don't enjoy pvp in WoW the way I used to ... and I also think pvp should be skill based, not gear based ... so either being undergeared on an alt, or overgeared on a main, neither feels satisfying to me. If I want pvp, I'll go play LoL.

    Saying all that ... I used to be a completionist, and it has waned. I now look at a game not as in how must I min/max achievements, which, besides ones with rewards like the violet proto, just busy work or ones that should just come with time and not be directly worked on (complete 5000 dailies type), or ones that are intended to increase participation. I can't disagree with them, it is good to encourage people to see there is more than just end game raids, but finding your own stuff to do is also fun. An achievement system is not required for fun or artificial progress.

    I can look at WoW with fresh eyes, and say that. I've started on a new server without BoAs several times (I can at least compare, since I've gotten to 50 several times in SWtOR, including leveling several sorcerers). The OP plays WoW, mentioned it, which is why I assume you also have mentioned comparisons. It is less like selling someone a CD player, and more of a comparison between an iPhone 5 vs a Galaxy 3S. They both give you basically the same thing, they do it in slightly different ways, and which one is better comes down more to personal preference and usage than anything. I have the iPhone 5, it is more like WoW; while my wife's Galaxy 3S is amazing, beautiful, does great things. Both are great choices, but she was done with iPhones. She'd be in my position arguing that the older platform is just not the same any longer, and the newer one makes the user feel more immersed into the product. But, I can see and agree with that, though I still prefer my less flashy iPhone.

    Truth is, Mists doesn't have that many dungeons. The raid tier is pretty big. But there is nothing 'fresh', really. I've done dailies for several xpacs now. These are locked up behind others, and the molten front progression was similar in a way, but it was just for more 'currency' to unlock vendors.

    It is truly hard not to compare to the elephant in the room, even you are doing it. I respect your opinions, but I disagree, and therefore, offering slightly differing opinions on the same subject.

    You could say Tera has less content for the money, but I also enjoy that game quite a bit, because it is about the gameplay. I have more fun questing in that, than I do WoW, but it is nothing in comparison to the immersion of SWtOR questing. Immersion is also what makes the flashpoints more interesting. Yes, most people skip through, and I respect that, as well as skip them 90% of the time; but, for first play through, for each faction, it is definitely much more immersive. One of the most immersive things I can think in WoW dungeons is that little imp you have to interact with in Dire Maul ; at least off the top of my head.

    You technically could go after codex and datacrons. codex is similar to achievements in a very shallow way; but it does encourage you to explore, if not just to find and kill species on the planets.

    Hour for hour, I enjoy Star Wars more than WoW. This opinion would've certainly be different in BC and Wrath, but today, and in Cata, I find equal to better value in SW, and that is just from my perspective, and luckily for me, my wife's as well.

    I supported your assertion that they would probably be best as a Preferred, non-subscriber, with the caveat that the OP enjoys dungeons and raids; which can be bought through credits, but with leveling to 12 in two weeks, commitment to make credits would suck away time and immersion from the questing/story enjoyment, so I did suggest possibly one sub, and support the other to unlock things they want, if getting credits didn't work out through normal means.

    Preferred gives 6 slots, which allows them to see almost every classes story, go to a second server, though breaking legacy and funding yourself, would give them access to trying out the other discipline (could try out assassin instead of sorcerer).

    I agree that they went about this the wrong way, and I was mostly ok with it, up to Life Day stuff. I would prefer they went more of a Tera model. Previous subs/game disc buyers get 99% of the full game as it was for a sub pre-'F2P'. Subs get boosts and the cartel coins, and on events like Life Day, some form of a toy, like snow falling on your toon for 3 mins on a 5 min cd. Increase the preferred gold cap to 1 million. Reduce the cost of some of the stuff on the cartel (though if WoW charges $25 for mounts and $10 for pets, cartel prices are cheaper).


    I think, by reading the OP's responses, that they are 1) already having fun 2) enjoy the immersion of the story and quests, and planets enough that it is at least worthy of 1 month sub to get preferred status.

    After that, it is all up to them. Saying WoW is better, is rose-tinting WoW. I don't care for WoW, but I'm glad millions do. The game will live on for a long time, and I will continue to follow it for I'm interested in the lore. I may never play it again, for I want Wrath back. I like BC, but Ulduar was the pinnacle for me. That is when everything had come together. I like ICC as well. But that is also when the community started to falter. Something I can say is FARRRR better in SWtOR.

    I'm not saying SWtOR is for everyone; I just believe, from what I've interpreted, that this IS a great game for the OP. I'd suggest everyone to try Rift. I'd suggest those looking for something different to try Tera. I'd suggest anyone who loves to play with a friend, and get immersed into story, questing, and leveling, to try SWtOR.

    Personally, I pretty much only play LoL right now. I have a sub on Tera and hadn't touched in until recently for a long time (wife and I got 1 year at launch, our subs have been given at least 6 weeks additional for free since). I have a sub to WoW right now, and haven't logged in and done anything in a couple weeks. My wife and I, are planning to resub to SWtOR 'soon'.

    The two companies I think deserve my money the most? Trion and Riot. The ones that deserve it the least? Blizz and EA. I still feel SWtOR is 'worth' $15/mo for my wife and I, when we are enjoying ourselves.


    It basically comes down to individual feelings and viewpoints.

    I'll say more of agreeing with RohanV, if they felt like a smaller investment ($5 for preferred each account instead of $15 each for 1 month sub). I was just supporting the OP's desire to have unlimited access to the space combat, and their expressed enjoyment of running dungeons ... which, is nice for the daily, even while low level questing (5 comms from your current level planet for gear/mods); and in case the OP and/or their playmate enjoy a bit of pvp (for me, huttball is ok, but I like the domination style with balanced teams).

    I still think this is a great game, especially the questing and class stories.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 03:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
    Best thing to do is take your time, don't rush to 50. Once the storyline ends, that's pretty much it. Dailies aren't as bad as MoP but with all dailies, they are repetitive so it can get to you after a while. I came from WoW to SWTOR in beta and got to end game really quick but because our guild wasn't doing any FPs/Ops, it got boring really quick. I think if you find an active guild, it wont be bad.

    The thing with pvp in SWTOR is that you don't have to be good or well geared to enjoy it, it's more objective based than WoW, in my opinion. I think for me that's what makes it more fun, along with different attacks/moves that make it more exciting, like force push/charge. I didn't like pvp in WoW but love it in SWTOR, so it may be something worth trying, even with F2P you can try it out at least and see if that takes your fancy.
    oh yes!!! forgot to mention, the dailies in SWtOR -don't- work like Molten Front. They are very similar to WoW. Go, spend a couple hours to do them all, basically for earning credits/gold. No dynamic changes in the world. (though I didn't even get on my 90s this last time subbing, and haven't done the 5.1 dailies, am really -that- sick of the game, and didn't realize it until I logged on my 90 lock and just had no desire to do anything, jumped in a few scenarios, and logged; think I actually logged out just after Raven Lord, one last attempt at that stingy mount )

  17. #17
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    Have become bored
    *snip*
    neither feels satisfying to me.
    *snip*
    Saying all that ... I used to be a completionist, and it has waned.
    This is why your opinion is invalid. You are bored. That is a biased opinion. I might not like the company that runs SWTOR, but I approach every MMO equally. If I was talking about qualitative data for any of this, then you could label me biased.
    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    An achievement system is not required for fun or artificial progress.
    Most MMOs and Consoles and Steam all seem to disagree with you. Having achievements in this genre is borderline mandatory at this point. The games that don't have them properly, like GW2, have realized this and are correcting their error. You might not think they are required, but it turns what has already been created into a much deeper level of engagement.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    I can look at WoW with fresh eyes, and say that.
    No you can't. You just explained for multiple paragraphs how it bores you. You do not have any perspective on the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    They both give you basically the same thing, they do it in slightly different ways, and which one is better comes down more to personal preference and usage than anything.
    They don't do the same thing at all. A phone that has 5 features is not a phone that has 20 features. We are talking about time, not what you personally like.
    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    It is truly hard not to compare to the elephant in the room, even you are doing it. I respect your opinions, but I disagree, and therefore, offering slightly differing opinions on the same subject.
    You can't disagree with quantitative data. It's not opinionated.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-01-29 at 10:05 PM.
    BAD WOLF

  18. #18
    Kitty. You claim to not be biased, but you are. Your opinion is biased, even though you try not to be.

    I say people -can- have fun in WoW, but it isn't for me any longer. Most people -do- skip quest text, in most games, that includes Rift, GW2, Tera, etc. Just because I don't enjoy the questing experience, nor the raiding environment any longer, doesn't mean I don't think others can ... but those who want immersion, story based questing, and questing to be enjoyed with a friend ... SWtOR is far above WoW. If you want to blast through leveling solo, and are focused on racing to 'end game', then WoW is probably your game. If you want both, Rift is your game, albeit you have to read quest text. The redone Azeroth was ok, but without heirlooms, you still outlevel the zones. The xp for leveling is just too nerfed to really do the lore and be involved in the story leads without quests going gray to you.

    As far as achievements, there IS a reason achievements are being done by all these companies. A false sense of prolonging content, over just making great content. I played thousand(s) of hours of Oblivion, not because of some gamerscore/trophies, but because it was a GREAT game. I didn't replay King's Field 2 on Playstation many, many times because of achievements, I did it because it was a badass game, and I searched the world for all the hidden items, not because there was a 'fog of war' and an achievement for discovering, but for the effort and reward of exploration itself.

    You may be driven more by the achievements. I got most of mine in WoW from just playing, not chasing them. I thought from the first moment, the 360 gamerscore stuff was a joke. You may feel it is mandatory. I think, when done right, they are nice ... but when done poorly, are actually a negative aspect. I feel the Codex system is enough, but, if you need some fake 'score' to make you feel better, then give yourself 10 points for every codex you have, and that will help your ego feel a bit better. Give yourself 20 points for every boss you've downed. The points, are arbitrary.

    The whole point is, it should be about the journey and the experience itself, not the reward, the gear, or some magical points.

    SWtOR may not be swarming with bells and whistles, but it isn't a nokia 1000 series compared to a tablet PC ... or if you want to speak of time, it is more like comparing FF8 to FF9 ... preference. It -IS- what the -player- likes, not cherry picking what you find faults or what isn't available and saying it isn't good enough. It'd be like comparing a Prius to a F150. They are both vehicles, and both do things in different ways, and different people enjoy them. Just because a Prius can't tow or haul dirt, doesn't mean it doesn't have value, and just because the truck can't get 50 mpg and you don't like the 'feel' of trucks, doesn't mean other people don't find them a good choice.

    Choice, opinion, and preference is EXACTLY the difference here.

    The point being, this game, fits damn well with what OP is looking for in a game, at the pace they are playing. Two week, two toons under 15. Story based questing. They love the LS/DS choices and immersion from the quests and story line. That is the major draw of this game.


    Since you felt special trying to break down what I said, and dismissing me, well, let's turn that around:

    yes, as a casual player you will run out of content quickly
    personal opinion. My wife and I are semi-casual players (can get to 50 in days when we choose); and we don't feel we've run out of content, and, to turn this even more on it's head ... Have you done every class and advanced spec to 50 on both sides (16 50s?), every datacron, even the +10s? every codex? pvp'd and pve'd fully on most classes? all the space missions? gotten every companion on every toon to max affection? did the romance with companions on every toon? etc.

    While MoP runs everything through dailies, they have a great design and flow to them.
    opinion. Shado-pan are horrible, one of them in particular is very bugged. The companions on them, you are better off without them. The achievements for them are/were bugged. Flying at the serpent mount dailies can lead you to a random dismount and death, with no way back to your body on the side of the cliff but a spirit rez. vale dailies were so crowded you basically spammed your aoe to tag steal against your own faction. cooking faction dailies, just as crowded, objective griefing for a piece of meat. All the dailies were 'ok', but definitely shows there was bias in your statement.

    There are really no activities beyond dailies, pvp, space, dungeons, and raiding in this game.
    other than achievements that most relate to just doing the above repetitively, what else is there in WoW? any MMO? (minus space ofc)

    Additionally, this is talking about how you would proceed fresh in WoW versus what this game has to offer. You can't say well WoW doesn't have more than this game because you've played it already
    BUT, I've played both. I got SWtOR at launch. It has improved a lot since then (<3 UI mod-ability). I've played WoW since BC, but I played the most in wrath, not much in Cata, and spent a TON of time at the beginning of MoP until I hit the burn out wall. I can, comparatively say, I enjoy both games, but, SWtOR has more for a fresh, casual player than WoW can offer. If you start WoW and start SWtOR, SWtOR is going to make you feel more connection to your character from the first 5-10 minutes. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy leveling through the Quel'Danas, still my favorite starting area, but I don't feel the same bond, because I can't be polite or rude to the quest giver depending on how they treat me or how I want to (here is the key) 'role-play' my toon.

    There is no LFR in SWTOR,
    There definitely is, and, from this, it appears maybe you don't know the game as well as you claim, and your opinion may have less weight than I originally gave you credit for. Apparently you haven't done everything this game has to offer.

    Unless you've unlocked every achievement, have every pet, every mount, have defeated all of the content, maxed every rep, gained everything you can through pvp, and participated in all of the new types of content brought in Mists you can't accurately make this claim.
    This is why your opinion is invalid. You are bored. That is a biased opinion. I might not like the company that runs SWTOR, but I approach every MMO equally. If I was talking about qualitative data for any of this, then you could label me biased.
    So, you put forth your opinions, bait mine, just so you can try to use them against me? Even though I repeatedly gave you compliments and suggested that the OP heed your advice and consider your ideas heavily? You sir, just won the internets.

    I have played WoW since release and I can 100%, non biased tell you there isn't a reason to spend nearly as much time in this game as WoW other than leveling.
    No you can't. You just explained for multiple paragraphs how it bores you. You do not have any perspective on the issue.
    I could say the same for you, except, you've played the game for 8+ years, and I could just say you have rose-tinted glasses, and you don't have any perspective on this issue.


    If you want to present quantitative data, instead of your opinions and perspectives, fine. Compare exactly what the OP wants and consider what they say they like the most about this game:




    Yes, we actually tried Rift out for a couple of months. We barely reached 20, we just couldn't get into it. It felt more grindy than WoW, but worst was that between the realistic graphics and the seemingly generic lore, it failed to catch our eye. And i recognise that Rift surpases WoW in many aspects, guess just not for me.
    Our focus so far is leveling, and the story is very compelling... and the voice acting really makes a difference when it comes to quest exposition.
    The LS/DS decisions and the interaction with your companions really got my friend hooked up (i have suggested her to try out KOTOR and DA:O)
    Both my friend and I are altoholics. I'm much more of a dungeoneer than her, but i am very laid back. She wants to meet the greater challenges eventually. I would grind LFR in Cata like there was no tomorrow. Definitely never did anything beyond normal raids, though my friend was about to get into a heroic raiding guild once.
    My friend and i have been playing F2P for a few weeks

    I think we are lvl 11 on our Sith duo and 14 on our Republic duo. Not very fast, as you see. We are always clearing all the quests, ...
    So far the most engaging content is the exposition of the story. The class quests take the cake. ...
    And yes, companions are content (looking forward seeing HK again haha, though i think they overdid him a bit on KOTOR2, i hope they don't fall in the same mistake).

    Pay attention to the OP, not just posturing your opinion and disdain. I feel this game is an amazing game for the OP and their friend. Simple as that. If this was someone from Blood Legion or Paragon asking if they should play, I'd recommend they didn't, or play it for a month, because that is all they'd need to clear the whole game, and try Rift if they were looking for a change.

    I don't discount any of your opinions, for you ... I just find they don't necessarily relate to the situation, they are not taking into account the type of players the OP and their friend are. This is the basis of my opinions differing from yours. It isn't that I think SWtOR is the best game in the world, but it is probably the best game when it comes to playing an immersive story online with a good friend or few.

    That last line is an opinion, but you'd have a hard time arguing against it; since most people say this is the best single player game they've ever played, tongue-in-cheek insulting the lack of 'end-game' (while not admitting things like 6-12 months of WoW tiers) ...

    I will stick to it, and try to put it this way; here is the data:
    Very immersive class quests, with quality voice acting and cutscenes. Group quests/heroics, and group area heroics in on every planet; to encourage group play (something WoW got rid of completely or nerfed what was left to the ground in leveling content). Flashpoints available and encouraged at all levels through dailies, further encouraging group play. PvP dailies at low levels, encouraging group play and seeing all aspects of the game. A smart design in professions, allowing people to gather if they like, or send out your companions to do the dirty work for you, as well as old fashioned purchasing on the GTN. Challenging content for casual to moderate players, with the heroic areas/heroic group quests, given to you at quest hubs. An LFG system, that includes finding people for Bonus series on planets, and porting you to them for more convenience. Datacrons to be found in the world through dedicated exploration (instead of just looking it up from a website like swtorspy) that increase your toon's power. Codex that rewards you for exploring and killing new creatures you haven't seen before. Champion mobs in the world, to give yourself, or your group a challenge to take down, spread throughout the world. World bosses, even on the 1st planet you go to (after your starting planet), and every planet thereafter, to encourage grouping up with people to take down a larger challenge. You get your own ship, I still remember when I first got mine on my first toon, and it was a happy moment. Companions you can switch out, that have different roles and personalities. You can choose your dark/light side, further increasing your ability to role play and feel more invested in your toon (I have rolled light side inquisitor, dark side sage before, just for fun). Rather large planets to explore (Alderaan is HUGE, seriously).

    Do I need to go on? Or have you played the game before and can continue in your head? It isn't as simplistic and tiny or worthless as you've been trying to make out. I get it, you don't like the game that much. You are truly biased against it. Much more so than I am biased against WoW, because I still am happy 10 million others are happy with it, and wouldn't tell them to drop their subs unless they weren't having fun. I wouldn't tell someone to stay away or not sub to WoW either, because, I know people who played for more than a year, and hadn't gotten to 80, and were happy and having fun ... which all goes back to ... a game is what -you- make it; as long as it fits you (as OP stated, Rift did not fit them).



    So, to OP; keep having fun. This game is great. You are having a good time. You like what has been presented to you. Either buy $5 worth of cartel coins each or sub 1 month each to get the preferred. Check out some of the stuff they have going on, like 'preferred packages' or whatever. I have no intentions on convincing you this is the game you'll be playing 6 months from now, but it seems you'll definitely be playing 6 weeks from now, and with a smile on your face. My personal favorite is the Sith Inquisitor. I enjoyed a hybrid lightning based spec, and healing, I have 2 50s and working on a 3rd, just in Sorcerers. My warrior was my first 50. I had a lot of fun leveling as Marauder at launch. I really like one of the companions, Jaesa, I was dark side, won't say any more I'm having fun leveling a twi'lek warrior, with a twi'lek slave, now that I've unlocked twi'leks by having one that is 50.

    The dailies may not have that sense of dynamic change ... but at 50, you will have access to SM and HM Flashpoints, and 2 SM Operations, through group finder; so you will be able to do your dungeon grinding fun. The HM FPs can still be a challenge when undergeared and/or with random people ... it isn't a guaranteed faceroll, even a year later. With no DBM or dps meters, it is all about having fun and following mechanics, instead of listening to warnings and epeens.

    Best luck to you, really ... and happy thoughts to Kitty as well, as I said before, no ill will at all, even if they don't feel the same ^_^

  19. #19
    The Patient Slugfest's Avatar
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    I like Zerop's posts.
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  20. #20
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    Kitty. You claim to not be biased, but you are. Your opinion is biased, even though you try not to be.
    It's not possible to be biased with quantitative data. I'm not even trying to argue with you, but this is silly. This isn't conceptual mathematics. There are literally more (NUMBERS) things to do in other games than SWTOR. There are literally more (NUMBERS) features in other games than SWTOR.

    I'm not speaking to the quality of enjoyment, this that or the other, just the sheer potential for time spent based on how many things there are to do. If you compare any fresh game to SWTOR, specifically it's direct competitors, they all have more features and end game activities.

    Any argument to the contrary is not only numerically innacurate, but present a bias of how you perceive the actions. That's exactly what I'm not doing.


    Edit:
    Example - I like SWTOR pvp better than any other MMO I've played. I wouldn't dare say that there are more things to do in SWTOR pvp, because it's incredibly limited compared to other games. Not just in maps, but types of games, sizes of teams, etc. It's simply counting numbers.
    BAD WOLF

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