1. #1
    Blademaster MegaAverageGamers's Avatar
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    how far behind is destro ?

    Hi all just wondering .. as the title says how far behind is destro compared to demo and affliction, I'm just curious I'm currently lvling my warlock he's 88 atm close to 89 and Ofc I'm destro spec and I'm kinda loving it I don't mind affliction spec but I just love nuking stuff with a massive green fireball haha so just wondering if destro will pull its weight. I'm not in a progression guild and not pushing hardcore raiding etc most likely be casual 10 man and raidfinder will or can destro work in those settings, sorry if its been asked before couldn't find the topic

    Hope you can help
    Wikidsik

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaAverageGamers View Post
    Hi all just wondering .. as the title says how far behind is destro compared to demo and affliction, I'm just curious I'm currently lvling my warlock he's 88 atm close to 89 and Ofc I'm destro spec and I'm kinda loving it I don't mind affliction spec but I just love nuking stuff with a massive green fireball haha so just wondering if destro will pull its weight. I'm not in a progression guild and not pushing hardcore raiding etc most likely be casual 10 man and raidfinder will or can destro work in those settings, sorry if its been asked before couldn't find the topic

    Hope you can help
    Wikidsik
    Affliction is a top spec.

    Destro is a "middle of the pack" spec. If not high middle end.

    If you look at yourself as dps, without comparing to other locks, you will be able to pull your weight just fine.
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  3. #3
    For how you like to play, not in progression, destro is just fine. You're having fun with it, which is great, and while you won't always top the meters, you'll be toward the upper end.

  4. #4
    It's fine in progression raids too to be honest. If you're raid is lacking DPS for progression, you might want to go Affliction aslong as it doesn't hurt your feelings as it does with mine.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaAverageGamers View Post
    Hi all just wondering .. as the title says how far behind is destro compared to demo and affliction, I'm just curious I'm currently lvling my warlock he's 88 atm close to 89 and Ofc I'm destro spec and I'm kinda loving it I don't mind affliction spec but I just love nuking stuff with a massive green fireball haha so just wondering if destro will pull its weight. I'm not in a progression guild and not pushing hardcore raiding etc most likely be casual 10 man and raidfinder will or can destro work in those settings, sorry if its been asked before couldn't find the topic

    Hope you can help
    Wikidsik
    I'd consider myself in a progression guild (Got 16/16H Monday), and I was destro for all of our first kills but Will and Protectors, for which I was Aff. Destro can easily pull it's own weight in a raid group, and can do extremely well on certain fights such as H Sha (last phase, where all the damage matters) and Garajal (Shadow realm + FnB + Mannoroths Fury means you can solo the bottom easily).

    I'd consider it behind affliction easily on fights that have a large single target component, and don't have any adds which yield XP or honor on death. (For shadowburn returns).

    Destro is exceptional on fights where there's adds that give back 2 embers on death with shadowburn KB Sniping and you can cleave with havoc. It's also exceptional on fights with spread out AoE such as amber shaper, or on fights where there is a big burn phase with adds you can RoF, such as H Wind Lord.


    The only thing I think destro is weak at is single target compared to Aff/Demo, and could use a buff to single-target damage.


    Personally I would love to see Aff be great at 1/2/3 targets, destro be great at 2/AoE, and Demo be great at 1/AoE. Would give each spec a little more diversity. If you sim all three specs with a 2target cleave priority, all three specs are within 1-2K of each other. (Of course this would force destro to be amazing at 2 target cleave, in order to make you go it for fights that have 2 target cleave, but I think that fits the identity of the spec with Havoc and RoF on 2 targets.

  6. #6
    ^ These people speak the truth.

    Destro can definitely hold it's own, even if that's a little lower than Affliction.

  7. #7
    Dreadlord kushlol's Avatar
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    To be destro on most progression fights during this tier was pretty much intentionally gimping your overall raid dps. Yes there are definitely some fights that destro excelled at but then others it couldn't even come close to affliction. At the end of the day though it's your money play what you want.

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  8. #8
    I have always been Destro, and so far in this expansion my experience is that Destro works for me. In my 10man raid, I am almost always the top DPS. The group is not the ideal setup, but it's what we have. On Regular 10man Elegon, I can hit 140K, but by the end of the fight my average has dropped down to about 80-90K. I know that LFR is not a real good judge of things, but I am generally in the top 3 spots for all 5 lfr's.

  9. #9
    This is from my kill tonite on heroic Vizor, im currently at 498 Item level (497 during this kill) and as you can see my damage is more than fine on this boss, the thing with destro as people have said is that there is very little it does better than affliction, but unless your in a cutting edge heroic guild it genuinely doesnt matter.

    I am at 11/16 heroic atm and i can comfortably top damage on every encounter within my raid group.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=4557&e=5115

  10. #10
    I was looking at your log, and found it interesting that everyones dps went down during your bloodlust/timwarp period.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazumichan View Post
    I was looking at your log, and found it interesting that everyones dps went down during your bloodlust/timwarp period.
    Ye, i tried to explain this to them today, but its because we kill the echo so we use bloodlust when the echo spawns which is usually straight into convert > attenuation, but even like this the echo is only alive for 40 seconds and as we dont need bloodlust at any other stage, but i think im the person the most comfortable with doing damage on that last phase.

  12. #12
    I am at 11/16 heroic atm and i can comfortably top damage on every encounter within my raid group.
    Congrats on the awesome dps. But I think your example shows just how far behind Destruction really is. Because you can't even get off of the first page and folks are pulling mid 80's as compared to Affliction where people are pulling 114 and up. Now there certainly is spec bias for sure but I find it hard to believe thier aren't at least 30-40 very good Warlocks playing Destruction.

    Just as a further comparison on the same fight on normal. I'm in a guild that isn't even working on heroics yet. Our kill times are slow because I'm pulling around 20% of the dps so our overall raid dps is low. In 491 gear I'm pulling numbers that would put me on the front page of that fight if I was Destruction. That doesn't tell me I'm good at all. That tells me Destruction is really far behind.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinjin View Post
    Congrats on the awesome dps. But I think your example shows just how far behind Destruction really is. Because you can't even get off of the first page and folks are pulling mid 80's as compared to Affliction where people are pulling 114 and up. Now there certainly is spec bias for sure but I find it hard to believe thier aren't at least 30-40 very good Warlocks playing Destruction.

    Just as a further comparison on the same fight on normal. I'm in a guild that isn't even working on heroics yet. Our kill times are slow because I'm pulling around 20% of the dps so our overall raid dps is low. In 491 gear I'm pulling numbers that would put me on the front page of that fight if I was Destruction. That doesn't tell me I'm good at all. That tells me Destruction is really far behind.
    This is a fair point, but i think you are looking at it from the wrong angle, Destruction in comparision to the majority of specs is actually fine, its that affliction is quite drastically overtuned but has no real weakness at all and this makes Destro seem weak when you have the option of playing a spec which is in my honest opinion a lot easier to play very well because of how pandemic works.

    So to answer the original question -

    How far behind is destro - (in comparision to the middle of the pack specs) its fine

    How far is it behind affliction - very much so because affliction does everything far to well

    Edit, give yourself a little credit. Destruction is a very fun spec to play and is incredibly rewarding just in knowing that if you know how to use your entire toolkit you can do well with a spec that is regarded as undertuned.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fiestatastic View Post
    For how you like to play, not in progression, destro is just fine. You're having fun with it, which is great, and while you won't always top the meters, you'll be toward the upper end.
    This, really, just enjoy the spec, it's good enough. And if you feel your damage is really too low, try aff and see how it compares.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 01:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinjin View Post
    Congrats on the awesome dps. But I think your example shows just how far behind Destruction really is. Because you can't even get off of the first page and folks are pulling mid 80's as compared to Affliction where people are pulling 114 and up. Now there certainly is spec bias for sure but I find it hard to believe thier aren't at least 30-40 very good Warlocks playing Destruction.

    Just as a further comparison on the same fight on normal. I'm in a guild that isn't even working on heroics yet. Our kill times are slow because I'm pulling around 20% of the dps so our overall raid dps is low. In 491 gear I'm pulling numbers that would put me on the front page of that fight if I was Destruction. That doesn't tell me I'm good at all. That tells me Destruction is really far behind.
    As opposed to 4000 very good affliction locks, which is what blues mean by spec bias. No serious high end warlock would touch destro for progression, really.

  15. #15
    What is "serious"?
    Top 20 guilds in the world?
    Guilds with 16/16 HC by now?

  16. #16
    I've been Destruction for 6 years but at the behest of my lairy new guild I've tried Affliction and I just can't get good numbers with it. The best I manage to do is about equal to what I do as Destro. Affliction also feels horrible to play and I find it very un-enjoyable, maybe it's because I'm just not used to a dot spec, maybe I just don't like the playstyle of it...

    My point is though that I'd rather do "ok" damage with a spec I enjoy than struggle to do "good" damage with a spec I hate. If my guild or any other has a problem with that they can just fuck off - if I'm not enjoying the game then why even bother playing?

  17. #17
    I agree you, Netherspark. If you don't like another spec, why play it.

    On another point, I have not been able to find break points that goes with destro. Anyone have any good numbers for that?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    This is a fair point, but i think you are looking at it from the wrong angle, Destruction in comparision to the majority of specs is actually fine, its that affliction is quite drastically overtuned but has no real weakness at all and this makes Destro seem weak when you have the option of playing a spec which is in my honest opinion a lot easier to play very well because of how pandemic works.
    well that isnt really true, well to a degree atleast. you could just as well say that both specs are perfectly fine, but that there are too few fights this tier that destro benefits properly from. for example if there were more fights like tsulong hc, according to WoL, then destro would seem a lot stronger than afflic as it does very well on that fight, fact of the matter is that afflic is close to a perfect single target spec with very strong aoe capabilities if you can set it up right, where as destro is much weaker than afflic in terms of single target but is very good at cleaving or atleast better than afflic(or rather that is the picture i get from the rather limited time i played destro, never liked it as much as demo and afflic), it really comes down to how the tier looks in terms of fight, but you're prolly right, overall when you look at all fights, afflic is prolly doing too well but there are also a lot of fights that are absolutely perfect for afflic which makes it look like afflic is much stronger than it actually is since as i see it, its the mass amount of single target dpsing on the boss encounters that makes afflic so good, and more balanced boss encounters would certainly make the current picture change into all specs being fairly balanced as well.

    the problem with destro is that it is a difficult spec to buff, because of how GoSac works with destro and how its abilities interact with each other, bcoz if you buff destro's single target dps you make GoSac even more mandatory than it is now which from the looks of it, is something blizz doesnt want. if they do decide to buff destro's single target dps they would have to nerf GoSac even further so that it isnt mandatory like it is now for destro and buff the dmg from single target spells and adjust FnB accordingly basically making it into how affliction is now in terms of single target dps and aoe strength.

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