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  1. #1

    Heroic Garajal with 2 DK tank

    I always felt that Garajal was a fight intended to punish us.. lately we've been trying to kill it in heroic, but it has been hard...
    The worst of all is that we got 2 DK tanks and doing it with 2 healers, the dolls get raped from time to time...

    any advice on best way to tank this fight?

    Edit, I find DKs very punishing since we kinda take more damage than other tanks. We're good since we heal ourselves a lot too... usually it compensates, but its not the case here... we take damage and dolls take 100% too :S

    plus since of our cds get really useless in reducing damage taken by dolls...
    Last edited by nctank; 2013-01-28 at 01:18 PM.

  2. #2
    High Overlord Moltor's Avatar
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    Go with 3 healers :P we used a disc smiting alot.

    Having 2 DK's was also very punishing for us. Pretty sure we juggled things around and had to use 2 bear tanks (this was very early on). You should outgear it now though.

    Also, Chaining tank cooldowns is important especially before the shadowy strike stuff.

  3. #3
    I'm not sure why this is an issue for you guys. Could you elaborate more on what they are having trouble with? Granted we only have 1 DK tank in our group, but he doesn't seem to have any problems. Also, what healers are you using? Our group 2 heals this fight but we also have a player that can heal, go in for the totems where myself or the other healer either, has voodoo or has the debuff.

  4. #4
    because ICB is 3 mins while most other big tank CDs ate 2 mins, and vampiric and antimagic shell are useless...
    they must rely on DS, DRW and unholy shield...

    still Shadow strike is killing us all the way!

  5. #5
    Hi, im french so i will try to speak english like i can xD.

    Im 15/16hc actualy and for garajal we were DK tank (me) and pal/drood tank. The better way for tanking him before getting high ilvl is to keep your army for the end like a Defensive and offensiv CD, max your shield for the mele attack and spam your AMS !

    AMS take the bolt than the Minions shot on you and its a heavy source of damages.
    Blood shield protect you from mele attack.
    Use your trinket (with dodge its better) and your DRW for the shadow attaque that u cant absorbe, and say to your healers to give you their CD every time they can after u use all yours.

    After the enrage, use DRW + trinket and use AoD as a defensiv CD, then wait for your life goes down a lot and use Death pact.
    Dont forget to keep an Icebound fortitude (WITHOUT GLYPH !!!) for this moment.
    Pal can also BoP u whitout losing aggro

    I hope it was helpfull to you and sorry for my (very) bad english XD.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Doomie-archimonde View Post
    Hi, im french so i will try to speak english like i can xD.

    Im 15/16hc actualy and for garajal we were DK tank (me) and pal/drood tank. The better way for tanking him before getting high ilvl is to keep your army for the end like a Defensive and offensiv CD, max your shield for the mele attack and spam your AMS !

    AMS take the bolt than the Minions shot on you and its a heavy source of damages.
    Blood shield protect you from mele attack.
    Use your trinket (with dodge its better) and your DRW for the shadow attaque that u cant absorbe, and say to your healers to give you their CD every time they can after u use all yours.

    After the enrage, use DRW + trinket and use AoD as a defensiv CD, then wait for your life goes down a lot and use Death pact.
    Dont forget to keep an Icebound fortitude (WITHOUT GLYPH !!!) for this moment.
    Pal can also BoP u whitout losing aggro

    I hope it was helpfull to you and sorry for my (very) bad english XD.
    yes... still it sucks because were both dks so we both been needing external CDs. i'm usuing ICB at start to have it at end...

    Anw youre saying that AMS works on the shadow strike? or just on minions?
    I'm using elagon trinket and DarkMoon fair

  7. #7
    I'd say, go with 3 healers, and use a good cool down rotation

    No CD first 4 secs, IBF next 12, Bone shield up, Down to 3 stacks, whack on Dancing rune weapon and AMS. As these run out, call for a BOP. Boss should die

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by nctank View Post
    yes... still it sucks because were both dks so we both been needing external CDs. i'm usuing ICB at start to have it at end...

    Anw youre saying that AMS works on the shadow strike? or just on minions?
    I'm using elagon trinket and DarkMoon fair
    It definitely works on the minions, but their attacks are random, so if your DPS are on the ball in the shadow realm it may not help, but it definitely can't hurt.

    As far as shadowy attacks, they are shadow damage, but all reports I've seen say that they are designed specifically to bypass absorption effects, which is what AMS is. It also can't hurt to just time your AMS for absorbing minion damage with the shadowy attacks, but it probably doesn't matter. And I guess it can hurt if you have no other CDs up and you get finished off by a minion when you could have absorbed it and lived.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=117222#comments
    Last edited by Spiralphoenix; 2013-01-28 at 02:02 PM.

  9. #9
    If you build up a max blood shield before taunting, wait until it falls off before using IBF, the remaining time can be filled in with DRW+Bone Shield, then 1 external cooldown. Use AMS during the DRW portion to mitigate shadow bolts just in case, AMZ is good too.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by nctank View Post
    because ICB is 3 mins while most other big tank CDs ate 2 mins, and vampiric and antimagic shell are useless...
    they must rely on DS, DRW and unholy shield...
    Vamp and AMS aren't useless. You can use Vamp unglyphed when you're not tanking to build your Blood Shield up an extra 100k points. You can continue to use it after you've taken the boss to boost your minimum shield size, since for a while you won't be taking virtually any damage until the boss breaks through your shield. Amplify this with Bone Shield, and protect the Bone Shield (and your health) with glyphed AMS. Remember, if an attack does no damage, it doesn't take a charge off of Bone Shield. So if you sit with Blood Shield up you can stretch Bone Shield out for an unreasonably long time.

    In fact, I found when tanking it that Bone Shield maintenance was where a good portion of my focus went. Protect that shield my boy, taking 20% less damage is no joke.

  11. #11
    For those of you confused about why this is being discussed. The problem with Gara'jal and Blood DKs isn't that the blood dk is getting chunked on, its the fact that you have very few resources available to you to mitigate the damage that your other two linked partners are taking as (redacted)blood shield does absolutely nothing to help them.

    As many have said before, 3 healing and/or a good external CD rotation would help tramendously.
    Last edited by Fox Fang; 2013-01-29 at 04:24 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiqjaq View Post
    Vamp and AMS aren't useless. You can use Vamp unglyphed when you're not tanking to build your Blood Shield up an extra 100k points. You can continue to use it after you've taken the boss to boost your minimum shield size, since for a while you won't be taking virtually any damage until the boss breaks through your shield. Amplify this with Bone Shield, and protect the Bone Shield (and your health) with glyphed AMS. Remember, if an attack does no damage, it doesn't take a charge off of Bone Shield. So if you sit with Blood Shield up you can stretch Bone Shield out for an unreasonably long time.

    In fact, I found when tanking it that Bone Shield maintenance was where a good portion of my focus went. Protect that shield my boy, taking 20% less damage is no joke.
    The bolded section is not true. Healing received modifiers do not change blood shield. This has always been the case.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Akiie View Post
    The bolded section is not true. Healing received modifiers do not change blood shield. This has always been the case.
    Sorry, I tend to go for a word to the wise type of approach and leave out explanations where they're needed.

    The maximum size of your Blood Shield is based on your max health. An unglyphed Vampiric Blood increases your max health by roughly 100k, which increases how large you can build your Blood Shield by the same amount when not tanking. Even after Vamp fades, your shield won't go back down until something eats away at it (or you derp and let it fall off).

  14. #14
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    As long as your DPS is ok, you can 3 heal this fight. It is very important to try and reduce the damage the tanks are taking. With 2 DK's, It would be ideal to have a disc priest building up DA/SS on the tanks to reduce the doll damage. We killed this in 2-3 pulls. Just stay focused on reducing the damage the tanks our taking. I have healed this with a DK and Monk tanks.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Akiie View Post
    I'd say, go with 3 healers, and use a good cool down rotation

    No CD first 4 secs, IBF next 12, Bone shield up, Down to 3 stacks, whack on Dancing rune weapon and AMS. As these run out, call for a BOP. Boss should die
    Were not getting to the last phase yet... were got around 30% most... we were trying 2 heal but was impossible, then we only had 3 or 4 tries with 3 heals. What happened was that on the tries where ppl went down fine, we kinda failed due to dolls death...

    we're probably not managing external CDs the best way we can, already gt some good sugestions here. But tank CDs are really limited.

    a random unmitigated shadowstrike + melee attack or minion bolt can global (or close) dolls... and you got to heal 2 of them...



    Quote Originally Posted by Fox Fang View Post
    For those of you confused about why this is being discussed. The problem with Gara'jal and Blood DKs isn't that the blood dk is getting chunked on, its the fact that you have very few resources available to you to mitigate the damage that your other two linked partners are taking as blood shield does absolutely nothing to help them.

    As many have said before, 3 healing and/or a good external CD rotation would help tramendously.
    exactly, as blood dks by ourselves were fine... we get damaged and we heal... It's the dolls that die.
    We have 2 issues, 1 is we generally take more damage, the other is we lack tools for this fight.

    having fights where some abilities pass thru absortion effects and then have tanks that can effortless reduce their damage and others can't is just lame. Plus some of our CDs are just plain useless in the fight :S

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Fox Fang View Post
    For those of you confused about why this is being discussed. The problem with Gara'jal and Blood DKs isn't that the blood dk is getting chunked on, its the fact that you have very few resources available to you to mitigate the damage that your other two linked partners are taking as blood shield does absolutely nothing to help them.

    As many have said before, 3 healing and/or a good external CD rotation would help tramendously.
    How does the blood shield do absolutely nothing to help them? The transferred damage to voodoo dolls is the same damage the DK takes after reductions/absorbs. They are slightly disadvantaged on the Shadowy attacks as blood shield doesn't help that and other tanks are capable of partially blocking it, but shadowy attacks isn't all the damage.

    The thing that disadvantages DK tanks is that part of their tanking mitigation is the death strike heal, which involves taking damage and healing it back up. That heal doesn't transfer to the voodoo dolls in the way that a block tank would just mitigate the damage to begin with, so the voodoo dolls don't take the high damage to begin with. A death knight takes and is designed to take that damage, and heal it back up (as well as shield to absorb future attacks), but that heal doesn't "transfer" to the voodoo dolls, effectively making DK tanks less desirable. The blood shield works fine for reducing voodoo doll damage. If it didn't, you probably couldn't use a DK tank at all for Gara'jal. Dolls would get annihilated plain and simple.

    From our own logs:

    [23:09:30.380] Gara'jal the Spiritbinder hits Webus 85951 (A: 58813)
    [23:09:31.081] Webus Voodoo Dolls Grouchó Absorb (85951)
    [23:09:31.081] Webus Voodoo Dolls Chendmar 85951
    [23:09:31.081] Webus Voodoo Dolls Avahnel 63062 (A: 22889)

    [23:09:45.809] Gara'jal the Spiritbinder hits Webus 51399 (A: 162083)
    [23:09:46.350] Webus Voodoo Dolls Grouchó 51399
    [23:09:46.350] Webus Voodoo Dolls Chendmar 51399
    [23:09:46.350] Webus Voodoo Dolls Avahnel 51399

    [23:11:29.800] Gara'jal the Spiritbinder hits Webus 51961 (A: 107470)
    [23:11:30.377] Webus Voodoo Dolls Osoholy 49203 (A: 2758)
    [23:11:30.377] Webus Voodoo Dolls Eisheth Absorb (51961)
    [23:11:30.377] Webus Voodoo Dolls Novax 51961

    [23:11:32.854] Gara'jal the Spiritbinder hits Webus 60589 (A: 137236)
    [23:11:33.584] Webus Voodoo Dolls Osoholy Absorb (60589)
    [23:11:33.584] Webus Voodoo Dolls Eisheth Absorb (60589)
    [23:11:33.614] Webus Voodoo Dolls Novax Absorb (60589)

    If it didn't work, the voodoo dolls would take the damage he took plus the absorb number.

  17. #17
    I just recently tanked H Gara'jal. My advice would be to rotate your cooldowns whenever they're up and try not to overlap them. Use your Death Strike smartly in order to receive more healing. Also, to help out with dps you can actually taunt the boss when you're not tanking him in order to receive some tasty free vengeance to increase your deeps! Although, we aren't the most optimal class to tank, we are still very capable of it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nctank View Post
    because ICB is 3 mins while most other big tank CDs ate 2 mins, and vampiric and antimagic shell are useless...
    they must rely on DS, DRW and unholy shield...

    still Shadow strike is killing us all the way!
    Other big tank CDs aren't 2 minutes though, just sayin.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akiie View Post
    The bolded section is not true. Healing received modifiers do not change blood shield. This has always been the case.
    I believe he means the extra HEALTH allows you to increase the size of your shield, given that Blood Shield caps at your max health.

    Also, Blood Shield DOES help with the physical damage taken for the dolls. If you absorb 20k damage, thats 20k less damage the dolls take from that hit.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 01:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by nctank View Post
    because ICB is 3 mins while most other big tank CDs ate 2 mins, and vampiric and antimagic shell are useless...
    they must rely on DS, DRW and unholy shield...

    still Shadow strike is killing us all the way!
    A note on this- the only big TANK CD thats 2 min that other tanks have is Warriors with Shield Wall- its either 40% (Unlike our 50%, and stun immunity) for 12 seconds, 2 min CD, or 60% for 12 seconds, 4 min CD.

    Vampiric Blood is actually useful- Blood Shield healing is based of of DS healing. VB will increase DS healing. Thus, VB= bigger Blood Shields, unless that changed sometime since cata.

    Shadow Strike.. Hrmm... That DOES hurt us more then the other tanks. We only have 10% reduced damage taken baseline, unlike other tanks 15-25% reduced damage taken from spells. And, of course, our anti-magic CD thats meant to mitigate spell damage doesn't work on Shadow Strikes. Best thing is to just save a DS after each Shadow Strike, at least that way we "take" 30-50% less damage from it (From the resulting heal and absorb. Its good as long as you don't die)
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    I believe he means the extra HEALTH allows you to increase the size of your shield, given that Blood Shield caps at your max health.

    Also, Blood Shield DOES help with the physical damage taken for the dolls. If you absorb 20k damage, thats 20k less damage the dolls take from that hit.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 01:24 AM ----------



    A note on this- the only big TANK CD thats 2 min that other tanks have is Warriors with Shield Wall- its either 40% (Unlike our 50%, and stun immunity) for 12 seconds, 2 min CD, or 60% for 12 seconds, 4 min CD.

    Vampiric Blood is actually useful- Blood Shield healing is based of of DS healing. VB will increase DS healing. Thus, VB= bigger Blood Shields, unless that changed sometime since cata.

    Shadow Strike.. Hrmm... That DOES hurt us more then the other tanks. We only have 10% reduced damage taken baseline, unlike other tanks 15-25% reduced damage taken from spells. And, of course, our anti-magic CD thats meant to mitigate spell damage doesn't work on Shadow Strikes. Best thing is to just save a DS after each Shadow Strike, at least that way we "take" 30-50% less damage from it (From the resulting heal and absorb. Its good as long as you don't die)
    You'd have to pop VB immediately before becoming tank, so yes, i guess there is some value to this, but at the same time, i don't ever see my blood shield drop regardless...

    Also, VB does not = bigger blood shields, unless you're death striking for a minimum heal, which, if you're doing that on gar'ajal hc sub 20%, you're doing something wrong.

    Physical damage and blood shield mitigation is not the issue for tanking Garajal heroic, it's purely the unabsorbable shadow damage which is the problem. Sensible CD usage negates it pretty much though.

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