Not to mention representation means absolutely nothing when it comes to determining how competitive a spec is. Ret is a popular spec overall, but you dont see top guilds bringing 2-3 to their world 1st, 2nd, 3rd heroic Sha of Fear kills do you?
Last edited by panzerfar; 2013-01-29 at 07:36 AM.
The issue in both pve and pvp is roughly the same. Anything we can do another dps can do better. We bring nothing special nor spec specific. There's always a better choice for 10 man pve and every facet of pvp.
In PvE being good at your class and casual raiding(let's say less than 10 hours a week) is enough to get by and clear everything. Though I'm sure somebody will be thinking, if only we had X instead of Y. But generally you learn the encounter and know how to play your class for that type of encounter and you'll get by. The content isn't tuned that tightly.
Being good in pvp usually transfers from class to class and there's so few spots to fill that it makes it hard for a spec like ret or enh to fit in. Regardless of your level of play, simply because YOU would be better playing another class. PvP isn't a scripted encounter that lets you get by, just hitting your rotation correctly.
Synergy is everything and as a ret you don't synergize(?) very well compared to other classes. Train the ret, now what? If you were a warrior at least you'd be taking less damage and can instantly get oor or los. This is just one of many examples.
Last edited by Riptide; 2013-01-29 at 08:25 AM.
I think one of the main reasons that Ret has become so under represented in both PvP and PvE is that it got toned down/nerfed and other classes were buffed, which scared away some Rets into the arms of another class. Warriors for example.
Scrapbot doesn't want me to have Signatures. :'(
Wouldn't the entire point be to compare the representation compared with other specs?
Not saying that retribution is the best of the best specs, however obviously alot of players manage to play it at high levels, alot more so than alot of other specs.
That being said, think ret is alot better in PvE than PvP. The only problem in PvE is that both prot and holy is also in a very good spot, still, more rets than prots and holys.
Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-01-29 at 01:08 PM.
I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.
Prolly the top 5 biggest names in PvE ret in the last 4 years in one guild
---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 01:07 PM ----------
I'm worried tho if say...... warriors hit crit cap
also obscure reference is a top guild? no... Then us 3 should be mentioned
---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 01:44 PM ----------
Also Dallon but he seems to of quit.
Last edited by anaxie; 2013-01-29 at 01:45 PM.
I have to say even mentioning Nihilum made me giggle. I think top 10-man guilds would get more recognition if they all weren't German/French/Russian with no interaction with the English speaking community.
Yeah 10-man and still hardly able to get raids going. I expect Kungen to make a statement about WoW being shit like he did back in Cata and then move on to some other game.
---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 06:15 PM ----------
1) You're comparing us to tanking specs in PvP, and as we all know pretty much only prot warriors are taken seriously.
2) Pure classes are usually given 1 very powerful PvP spec, one mediocre spec, and 1 barely functional one, thus 1 spec from petty much any pure class is barely playable (yes, I realize that this is almost as unfair as Ret being in crap condition, but at the end of the day a melee dps having to re-gear and learn Holy healing is way worse than expecting a pure to switch his play-style a bit and maybe re-gem.)
3) Other hybrids also often have 1 OP spec, like Resto shaman, thus leading to very low numbers of enhance and ele.
4) The constant drama over Ret ever since the Burning Crusade has gotten a lot of people emotionally attached to the spec, and so many of us play it no matter what. As i mentioned before, Ret is also very popular lore-wise, with many major Ret heroes like Uther and Tirion, so an unusually high number of players roll a Ret.
Overall, keep the crappy misinterpreted statistics, and please just play the spec in serious PvP if you want to act like you know anything about it. I cannot possibly understand the urge to go on the forums of a spec you clearly don't play, or understand, and start wasting the time of concerned players who know the spec and are making valid points, just so you can present your flawed research that wouldn't stand up in a STAT 101 class.
Last edited by Tangra; 2013-01-29 at 06:17 PM.
Problem for ret (imo) is that we do "ok" on too many areas and aren't put into a "role".
Atm we have alot of utility with our hand abilities, some of our talents increase healing on others and others again increases the powers of our utility.
We do mediocre single target dps (at best) and we're scraping the bottom of the barrel on aoe dps.
Oh and the mother of all curses (atleast in pvp) bubble, it's been a source of "can't be too strong" nerfs ever since arena came along.
In many cases the source of "weakness" for retribution paladins can be sourced back to pvp.
We healed too much -> heals got nerfed to the ground.
We burst too much -> burst gets nerfed.
We have too much utility -> other classes gets purges and shit for them.
list goes on and on, point is that pvp is the source of the retribution weakness.
Another thing is that in cataclysm (and before) we had dominant damage dealers, Templars verdict and mastery were alot ahead of say judgement and crusader strike on overall damage. Now in Mists of Pandaria they're fairly even which means the damage output in pvp is going to be even which means there's only going to be changes in preasure during CDs which can be dispelled or you'll be stunned through them.
Then it's the way our mastery works at the moment.
Templars verdict hits for 100k, mastery hits for 30k.
Suddenly a wild 50% damage increase mechanic appears.
Templars verdict hit for 150k, mastery hits for 45k + 22.5k.
any time a damage increase mechanic is on a boss it's going to cause obscure numbers to appear, making it even harder to balance.
Worst of all though is the stupid excuses and tweets that Ghostcrawler keep making, like the one where reducing the CD on guardian would cause too much "visual noise" in raids...
Just random numbers of out the blue:
1mil total players 10k make it top 5%
200k total players 6k make it top 5%
Which of the 2 is more successfull?
And yes the exact title of the thread is both missleading and flawed and thus shouldn't be discussed at all
Anaxie! Tell me it's not true that Requital is going WW for 5.2.