As I speculated in another thread, most rets are just bad.
The good ones can blow people to pieces. Then they cry Blizz for nerfs...
2) Ret is so simple and straight forward that you can't play it badly even if you tried.
3) No top teams have a Ret.
4) Using Guardian, Avenger, and Wings is how you blow people up, that is done with one simple macro, so there no real way for a good Ret to really do that much more damage than a bad one.
In fact, thank you for pointing out the exact major problem with Ret, which is the opposite of what you are arguing. That would be that there is barely any difference between a good Ret and a bad one because the spec is painfully underdeveloped and barely has any tactical worth.
I think people fail to understand that there is a science behind every class. Sure, ret is straight forward, but there ARE ways to min max, and there ARE a lot of bad rets. That being said, PvP is about control and communication, not just using all your CDs at once and hoping you land a kill.
Yeah, it being "ret only" is a long stretch. Granted, there are statistically more bad paladins, just because there are more paladins than pretty much any other class. Another thing to keep in mind, is that paladins are considered a "beginner" class, thus a lot of new players tend to play them. It just results in a lot of people with a lack of knowledge/experience.
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Anyway, as these examples illustrate, the problem with Ret has always been philosophy, or lack there of, they have no solid clue of what the spec is supposed to be for. Sometimes it's burst, sometimes it's mobility, sometimes it's supposedly high support (currently we seem to be meant to be one of the best off-healers)... when in reality we just end up with some half-finished product with no fine-tuning or tactical depth.
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Last edited by Tangra; 2013-01-30 at 10:03 PM.
We agree that Retribution does not offer enough benefits to an Arena or Battleground team beyond just taking a Holy paladin. We are going to try a change where Hand of Sacrifice also dispels all harmful magic effects on the target for Ret only.
Recent blue post... oooooh. I like it, but it makes Clemency even more necessary. What do you guys think?
Also: To all the people saying "Ret is fine," told you so.
Really really well summed up, covers how i personally feel about the situation with rets. People keep repeating how Rets have it so awesome, with all the burst we have. Which is fine and dandy in a perfect scenario where the other players LET you hit them, but if you are CCed/ can't get into range/ receive tons of damage during that period its generally wasted. This isn't at all the same for other classes. I've played enough DK/Warrior this season, and while both have their own set of problems, the sustained damage is the key point that ret really doesn't have going for it, especially when you're fighting Warriors that seemly chew through you all the time, while you hit them like a wet sock without cds.
PvE fairs a bit better, i raid 10 man so i have no clue about 25 man, generally in the top 3 but i'd wager rets fair better in 10 than 25, simply because there are a handful of classes that even the best rets will struggle to compete with. Really some of the CD damage should be worked into sustained. Utility wise any Prot paladin or holy paladin can bring that to a raid, its not unique to ret. So you know` can't really use that as a 'good' reason to bring them. I guess if your raid has neither, then Rets make a fine choice but again that can be said about a fair few classes when it comes to 10 man raiding.
Rets certainly do well PvE. Forums generally aren't the best source of advice for how well a certain spec is doing in PvP. I have no doubt that a few will excel still but personally i had to stop PvPing on my Ret paladin, and go Holy instead.
We are warriors, born from the light
An army for freedom, defenders of life
Warriors, euphoria will rise
Returning from darkness we bury all lies
What I would really like to see is a glyph that makes Divine Storm cause something similar to mass dispel to any targets within 20 yards or so. Ghostcrawler already expressed their regret that one of the coolest animations for Ret is barely used at all, so it makes sense to me.
Last edited by Tangra; 2013-01-31 at 01:38 AM.
I think adding some kind of beneficial intervene to ret arsenal would be great. The only melee who doesn't have real gap closer (outside of maybe monks? they confuse me still ). So say 1minute cooldown Intervene to friendly target granting her/him and yourself 5% dmg bonus for 10seconds. I don't really think sac dispell will affect much other than vs lock-priest comps.
From a rogue's standpoint, I always get so happy when I meet a ret in arena. They go down so easy. You have amazing burst, unless I stun or dismantle you, or use cloak of shadow, or evasion.
“The north still reeks of undeath. Our homelands lay in ruin. Pandaria oozes our hatred and doubt. What hope is there for this world when the Burning Legion again lands upon our shores?” - Eric Thibeau
Because Ret paladins simply aren't good right now. Every skill is bound to a CC, all burst is bound to long CCs, self-heals are pathetic, no decent/proper gap-closer for expansion after expansion, anything Ret can do others do better, relatively boring/unengaging/unchanged compared to other classes, out-performed in DPS by all other plate wearers, and so on and so forth.
What's worst about it all? Ghostcrawler has said quite clearly that Ret paladins are, "Pretty much exactly where we want them to be right now", so I wouldn't expect anything major to change. It's the 'Titanic' of WoW, and i've abandoned ship; as have most of the most notable Ret Paladin PvP players out there.
Last edited by Austilias; 2013-01-31 at 02:11 AM.
"It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a liberal is advanced, the probability of being accused of ‘bigotry’, ‘hatred’ or ‘intolerance’ approaches 1." - Cranmer's Law
Tbh from watching plenty of Vanguards and other high rated ret streams it always daunted on me that gap closer was the biggest issue of ret pvp in general.
And with that long cooldown "intervene" ya could use it for both offensive and defensive purposes thus adding more to the mix of complexity.