I have to tell you a Monk plays 100% like Ret but with the additions of AE without being pissed off about needing a target. Amazing mobility to the point it makes it fun instead of frustrating. No super high burst at the start then slowly dropping off but instead middle of the pack start up and great sustained DPS while still able finish in the same DPS range as a geared Ret.
IMO a Monk is a more refined Ret, They did a great job on the system. Fists of Fury is a great energy pool ability. Haste works really good with the energy system and the Chi system. It just feels like everything they should have done when designing the combo system for Ret went into a Monk. I'd suggest for anyone that feel they have reached a point with Ret where the class is stale give Windwalker a shot more fun than I have had since TBC.
I'll still play my Ret in alt raids and if I'm needed to but so far great change and long over due.
I agree 100%. Feeling what ACTUAL mobility is gives me a sad when I go back to Ret. Additionally, the fact that WW currently is the diametric opposite of ret's DPS structure and mentality (in that it has approximately NO notable burst, just great sustained) also gives me a sad.
It's like, the dev team had this great idea for how to make ret viable, ran it by the class designers, and they said "Nay, verily, these abilities are reminiscent of monks! We shall bestow these ideas unto them, and in their place, ret paladins shall receive more glittery spell effects.... Bitches love glittery spell effects."
20k and counting...Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
But seriously, yes, mainly those two abilities. Also Ring of Peace, all feel like they could have fit extremely well in Ret's archetype, but nope. And IDK, I'm still a little disconcerted that Ret and Enhance got extremely few changes while Rogues (who were also struggling) and monks (who were also struggling) are seeing some pretty damn strong buffs. It does, indeed, give me a sad.
Mainly because if I want to PvP on my pally (he's my main) I have to pvp another season as Holy.
On a more serious note, I am not quite sure how a hot should improve rets survivability in a game that is mostly centered around burst.
We are pretty viable in PvE I guess but If you want to play meele anyway and want to avoid switching to heal or tank, it makes more sense to play an other meele class with at least too meele specs.
I love the look and feel of Ret and have also spent so much effort, time and gold on him. But I sometimes just wanna bench him and move on to a literally "better" class. Not FOTM. I mean, consistently better.
In PVE, we are generally ok. I'm my guild's top DPS at about 75K DPS sustained with 483 ilevel, and I know my class inside and out. I'm having a blast on a monk, but Ret's PVE mechanics are solid (even if DPS numbers are not) and haste tanking as prot is fun as hell (I'm the #3 healer when I tank :P). No complaints mechanicswise tho.
In PVP however I just want to delete my toon. I get my gf's Spriest which is 15-20 ilevels below me and kill with half the effort. Sigh :\
---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 09:47 AM ----------
But why can't they just make inq do something extra beyond "press me or lose 30% holy damage lol". Make it do damage (maybe 50% of a TV?) at least.
In PVP sometimes you get opponents to this weird state of HP where you really dont know to TV or refresh. Like say, 30% health. Inq runs out in 2 seconds. Refresh or TV? If you TV, you may get the kill. If you don't kill, your successive damage has just dropped like a stone. If you had refreshed, you just gave his healer a global to heal him.
Argh. And no, it doesn't make for "fun and interesting gameplay".
I forgot to mention one thing with rogues, they are "struggling" but how come they are able to kill you without getting to melee range i know my gear isnt the best atm (cus im saving points for elem pvp in 5.2.) but still 60% resi and when i kite rogue in arena and he starts to spam shuriken toss on me and take 100k from me in 2 globals it sure is not fun, 2x 32k shuriken toss crit and 32k deadly poison crit just from spamming one button as melee class from like 20yr.
Last edited by Ossiris; 2013-02-06 at 10:11 AM.
For PVE, I think it may be because of the introduction of Monks into the player base. I see less Enhancement Shaman too.
And this newest iteration of Ring of Peace needed a lower cooldown. After they made it only defensive it was crappy in comparison to a half-the-cd 5 second stun.
Warriors cried their eyes out for a Deep Wounds that would refresh and roll over not just refresh and lose the extra damage from the previous applied dot. Along comes a new Deep wounds that takes the original dot and allows it to finish ticking at full until the new dot picks up. At this time Ret got this innovative new talent called Righteous Vengeance, Now before it was a talent it was a set bonus but simple fact of the matter is this wasa hand me down! Rets were happy ( they had no idea they were deceived!) everywhere a new dot that was based off crit yay there was much rejoicing as crit was relatively useless for us at the time. Wait, What is this deception!!! This isn't a new ability it's a renamed ability this is the Warriors Deep Wounds that they hated.
It's the same old song and dance, Ret gets the hand me downs that another class didn't want. They gave it to us with Warriors and deep wounds, They gave it to us from what Rogues hated and they realized it was shit. It's not going to change anytime soon.
i miss the days of TOGC twin valks was a retarded awesome fun fight on heroic so many good memories
jumped on my ret yesterday for the first time in ages lol at least my rotation is still perfect haha idk why i just cant forget it but my damage is like just a little over what my monk tank is doing its crazy ... also ive nvr died so many times on my paladin b4 eva ...
its strange but its more fun being a monk then ret atm
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tknight/simple - Retired ( miss my ret paladin )
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hostx/advanced - alt
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nknight/simple - Monks are OP ! ( new main )
Homogenization is nothing but a bull-crap rhetorical argument designed to keep crappy specs crappy, MMOs are still babies and have decades of iteration ahead of them. Acting like we have hit a brick wall and any future changes will just make the specs more similar is complete nonsense, the only reason such a thing would occur is because the developers are too lazy to create interesting new abilities, or in the case of Ret, just don't care to spend enough time on the spec to flesh it out and make it truly well designed.
I agree with this sentiment. It seemed like a great idea for a long time to bring the player not the class but then you get to the point less of giving everyone similar spells but more gutting some classes (like Paladins) of their unique spells instead in turn watering us down (Still bitter about Sanctity aura loss TBH). While most classes/specs came out fine I think a few just hardly made it through at all.
I think they need to keep the concept there at the core but abandon it on an over zealous level. They need to give identity back to those classes which need it and give them back some.
We finished looking at Seal of Righteousness and Justice. Righteousness we ended up buffing by 50% so it should be a good choice against 4 targets instead of 6.
Justice is much more complicated. It was intended as a PvP seal, but the damage loss is so significant and the snare just not that valuable (which is ironic when you consider Ret's history of not being able to catch things), and Burden of Guilt is there if you really do want to snare. Furthermore, just buffing Justice's damage risks Seal twisting in PvE becoming a thing, where you stack up Censure and then swap to Justice. It could be cool if designed right, but would probably just be annoying. We just don't have much room to buff Justice, and players might still forsake it in PvP.
So, we're going to redesign it and attempt to solve another problem, which is Ret's damage outside of cooldowns (which are quite potent). Justice will now proc (and Judgment will count for the proc) a stacking debuff on the target that increases the damage of your next Templar's Verdict. With 5 stacks, this will be a big hit (but not an insta-gib) and opens up some interesting decisions about how to use Holy Power, such as Inquisition or WoG, if you're trying to hold TV. While Truth + Censure will still do more sustained damage overall, there is a chance Justice will see some situational use in PvE, and we're okay with that. Justice is a Ret-only thing, so it should be a Seal they actually use. It won't snare at all, which I expect some will call a devastating nerf, but again, there's Burden of Guilt if you really need a snare.
Blue quote, IDK if you guys noticed that, just popped up a few minutes ago.
That Justice effect will probably end up being too good... but I get their point. The problem is, we just ramp up into cooldowns and someone is going to get obliterated. It doesn't help in the utility aspect, but do you guys think Ret/Rogue or Ret/Monk will work? With freedoms and stuff we are mostly a buff-bot out of cooldowns, while the other classes CC spam and pressure, but the Justice change is going to make our burst even stronger.
The only problem is no justice snare, but most pallies were still using truth anyway and not taking BOG.