Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssith View Post
    you guys forget that it also granted energy.

    i think that alone made it a nice cooldown, if a bit long. drop it to a 30-second CD and you've got something fun to throw assassination.
    Or just give classic thistle tea + renataki's charm of trikery back!
    P.S. J/k.

  2. #22
    reviving thistle tea as a non-potion, once-per-combat item would be pretty badass.

  3. #23
    I'm putting my money on "because it was absolute fucking garbage".

    Seriously. It was the worst CD in the game, no hyperbole. Not just in terms of its DPS contribution (between pitiful and zero depending on whether the ability would've crit anyway), it just had no identity or role and felt like a piece of crap whenever you used it. "Did that even do anything?"

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 05:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Overkill has been scrapped too because rogues used vanish offensively in pve, but thanks to t1 talents we still keep using vanish this way especially with subt
    Yeah but it's okay if Sub has to have a clumsy crappy rotation because Sub Rogues are used to that :P
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2013-01-29 at 05:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  4. #24
    Who actually gives a crap that this move is gone?
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
    Ambrose Bierce
    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  5. #25
    I guess I can't really talk because part of me still wants Ghostly Strike back :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssith View Post
    you guys forget that it also granted energy.

    i think that alone made it a nice cooldown, if a bit long. drop it to a 30-second CD and you've got something fun to throw assassination.
    Ah true, but they only added that in Cata as a last desperate attempt to make the button even worth clicking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    Overkill has been scrapped too because rogues used vanish offensively in pve, but thanks to t1 talents we still keep using vanish this way especially with subt
    For sub, Blizzard is ok with vanish being a cooldown. Sub is about stealth and openers.

    Combat and Mutilate both can use vanish + damaging move for a bit of extra dps- but it's nowhere close to what overkill brought previously, or really the combination of garrote + overkill. Previously vanish was a decent cooldown for mutilate, now it no longer is. Their goal was to remove it, and they did.

    I'd be crushed if they took it out of sub though.

  7. #27
    Cold Blood was simply a bad designed cooldown with little to no impact on gameplay. Usually i had it macroed with Envenom, just because it was the biggest crit available and forgot about that.

    To be honest i just feel tired. Lots of people here (some more than others for sure - and you know who i'm talking about) have really interesting ideas, but honestly they all lack identity. They are balanced - sometimes, fun and for sure a thing many rogues would love to have; but still they are nothing more than additional cooldowns, and we already have plenty of them.

    The rogue problem isn't something that can be solved with 1 or 2 new abilities or with revised talents; even if GC states that rogues "don't need the warlock treatment", actually they really, really need it.

    No amount of shinies can balance the fact that we are snd/rupture bots.

  8. #28
    It is not the removal of Cold Blood that bugs, rather that there are no crit modifiers on our cp generators which makes the spec less responsive, especially with Anticipation meaning you cant waste cps.

    Thank god for Blindside which saved the spec.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post

    Thank god for Blindside which saved the spec.
    Agree. Procs are something good to have - just not too much of them or too much random.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Agree. Procs are something good to have - just not too much of them or too much random.
    Not saying Blindside was bad as I quite liked it, but to be completely and brutally honest I first rolled a Rogue because the rotation was predictable and had no random procs and such. Over the past 4 orso years I've been a Hunter who had to press a button literally every global cooldown, to a Death Knight where I was forced to go Frost (because Unholy's damage was so far behind) and had to deal with different kinds of procs deciding my rotation and be at the RNG god's mercy, to a Rogue who had a very fixed and predictable rotation. I chose to go Rogue for that reason specifically and I think that's why I've never really had a problem with Rogue downtimes and not having a button to press every waking second. I also felt as Assassination you had things to do during downtimes, like watching and keeping track of like buffs, debuffs and timers, but that's a different topic.

    Gives Rogues lots of procs you actively need to work with (Blindside for example, not ''passive'' procs like Venomous Wounds) and the class for me personally would be ruined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ssith View Post
    reviving thistle tea as a non-potion, once-per-combat item would be pretty badass.
    ...maybe if it's called differently and works in a different way. I just can't imagine a Rogue suddenly sitting down during a major boss fight, setting up a little fire, making some tea and casually take some sips while discussing the weather. Well, non-Worgen at least.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-01-29 at 09:32 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Agree. Procs are something good to have - just not too much of them or too much random.
    Yes. I feel sorry for some classes that are all about procs as they spend their whole time watching out for them. It is also really RNG which I do not particularly like in this game. RNG can be fun but it is mostly tedious, and it is not reflective of skill e.g. Fire Mages in Cata either doing 55k or 40k just because of RNG.

    Anyway...back on topic....Cold Blood was fun especially in Cata when they also made it give you 25 energy. However, it was an extra bind for very little return every 2 mins. If it had has a 30 second cd or something then it would have been better but we would have just macroed it. OR if it had been more like Tiger's Fury e.g. it increased damage or crit for 10 seconds and/or refunded energy and had a 1 min cooldown, then it would have been more useful and made Assassination more dynamic. However, it was a very weak cooldown and is not something I miss (ever).

    What I do miss is energy and cp generation, which mostly came from crit modifiers. I know this will get better with gear although tbh I think more and more people will play Sub and Combat in 5.2 and 5.3 because of scaling and similar stats. Assassination will, however, get more and more fun to play as gear improves which is a nice thought.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Gives Rogues lots of procs you actively need to work with (Blindside for example, not ''passive'' procs like Venomous Wounds) and the class for me personally would be ruined.
    Lots of procs is not exactly what i would call it, but something on the line with blindiside would be cool - what if for sub your eviscerates have a small % to proc a free/nonstealth ambush (so more FW uptime etc etc but we're not talking about balance).

    Like you i like the stability of rogues rotations, and like you i don't like wack-a-mole classes. But there is a sweet spot between "lots of procs" and "no procs at all".

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    what if for sub your eviscerates have a small % to proc a free/nonstealth ambush
    Not trying to be difficult or anything, but this is exactly what I wouldn't like. This will require you to bind another pitiful damage ability that isn't interesting or fun to press. It's also going to be annoying for people who only bind Ambush in their stealth bar, but that's a different story. Now if for Combat specifically Eviscerate would have a chance to proc a free 5 combo point Rupture instead, that would be something I would like.

    Blindside works because Dispatch is something you have ready and something you will be using past 35% anyway. Having this awkward button bound somewhere that serve no purpose besides for that one proc isn't my cup of tea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Like you i like the stability of rogues rotations, and like you i don't like wack-a-mole classes. But there is a sweet spot between "lots of procs" and "no procs at all".
    I guess, but I would personally be fine with no active procs at all. Like I said Blindside worked out well, but if they removed it I wouldn't care much past balance issues.

    EDIT:

    Completely and totally off-topic, but something just stuck me that could if done well be very fun. How about a proc that puts Subtlety Rogues into stealth? Of course this needs to be tweaked correctly so it's not going to be annoying for PvEers who lose auto-attacks or attack right after the stealth and break it right away. Maybe something like a 4 second Vanish with Subterfuge build in?

    This could potentially make Subtlety exactly what a Subtlety Rogue is about. In my opinion, that is.
    Last edited by Bovan; 2013-01-29 at 10:19 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Completely and totally off-topic, but something just stuck me that could if done well be very fun. How about a proc that puts Subtlety Rogues into stealth? Of course this needs to be tweaked correctly so it's not going to be annoying for PvEers who lose auto-attacks or attack right after the stealth and break it right away. Maybe something like a 4 second Vanish with Subterfuge build in?

    This could potentially make Subtlety exactly what a Subtlety Rogue is about. In my opinion, that is.
    This is something i was thinking about too. It would be really interesting, but an hellish work to balance and make it work. Imho it should be something like shadowdance where you're not actually stealthed, but you're using the stealthbar - the animation could be the vanish one anyway.

    Player-side it would work the same way.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    This is something i was thinking about too. It would be really interesting, but an hellish work to balance and make it work. Imho it should be something like shadowdance where you're not actually stealthed, but you're using the stealthbar - the animation could be the vanish one anyway.

    Player-side it would work the same way.
    I absolutely hate it when people compare MMOs or even worse classes in MMOs with eachother, point at one, and then shout ''Oh my god that is so much better, ours suck!''. But what I absolutely loved from Guild Wars 2's Rogue class was them being able to stealth mid-combat with certain abilities. Especially in PvP this can be an immensely fun thing to do and with a high enough cost, not completely overpowered and horrible to play against. World of Warcraft's stealth isn't like Guild Wars 2's stealth but I still have hopes of getting this to work somehow. This is where my idea of making it an Vanish/Subterfuge buff.

    What you suggested could definitely work as well, but I like the idea of fighting against a Rogue who is able to conceal himself from sight every couple of seconds, not knowing where he will pop up next. Vanish sort of does this job but stealth is currently too powerful to make it not have a cooldown. Besides, I also don't like doing some world PvP or battlegrounds knowing that the moment I'm about to kill a Rogue he's going to Vanish and run away like the sissy he is (lighthearted joke). In PvE I'm more worried about the first boss AoE, auto-attack or accidental button press breaking stealth. But it's not like stealth really plays a big role in PvE I suppose.


    ...anyway Cold Blood.
    I uh... don't know what to say about Cold Blood that hasn't been said before. So I guess I'll just leave this topic after derailing it. My job here is done.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •