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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Because Europeans whose countries are monarchies grew up with the idea that they have a king or a queen stuck in their head and they're used to it. By the time they grow up, from all of the social processes that happen, they essentially like their kings and queens as symbols of their nations. Personally, I don't get it either.
    Right, I can intellectually understand that it's been drilled into people's heads the same way that a loathing of monarchy has been drilled into mine. I just don't really get how it stays in place in a populace that stops and thinks about whether it's just for a couple minutes.

  2. #62
    I am Murloc! Xanjori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    That seems like a rather bad reason to give them any political clout at all. What a odd thing, as an outsider, to see an anachronistic tradition kept around for the sake of some cash
    What political clout? The Queen meets and talks to the PMs occasionally but she only offers advice and they've all commented on how valuable her advice has been. Outside of that mostly her roles are as a diplomat which she does very effectively and ceremonial duties.

    I'm not sure how high inheritance taxes would be a gross injustice.
    Inheritance tax on what exactly? Every single penny earned by the royal estates goes directly to government, you're going to tax money thats already paid to the government?
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  3. #63
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    umm, why can't you have both?
    Because if the the Queen is the one of royal blood her husband will only be Prince consort.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    What political clout? The Queen meets and talks to the PMs occasionally but she only offers advice and they've all commented on how valuable her advice has been. Outside of that mostly her roles are as a diplomat which she does very effectively and ceremonial duties.
    I think you just answered your own question. Getting a PM's ear and taking a prime leadership role in foreign engagement is a fair bit of political clout for someone with no real qualifications other than being born to the right person.

  5. #65
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think you just answered your own question. Getting a PM's ear and taking a prime leadership role in foreign engagement is a fair bit of political clout for someone with no real qualifications other than being born to the right person.
    It is purely in name. She has no political clout. If she tried to do anything or even express herself politically (publicly) then she would have to abdicate. They are obliged by law to stay completely impartial of politics.

  6. #66
    I am Murloc! Xanjori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think you just answered your own question. Getting a PM's ear and taking a prime leadership role in foreign engagement is a fair bit of political clout for someone with no real qualifications other than being born to the right person.
    She probably receives more education into it than 10 people on this forum combined. You seem to be under the impression we don't choose what she does or who she speaks too.
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Right, I can intellectually understand that it's been drilled into people's heads the same way that a loathing of monarchy has been drilled into mine. I just don't really get how it stays in place in a populace that stops and thinks about whether it's just for a couple minutes.
    (I can only speak for the monarchy of the UK here, I do not know the extent to which it applies to other countries)

    The royal family have no political power. Although officially all governmental power originates from the crown, effectively the queen acts as a rubber stamp on governmental decisions. Although we have no written constitution, it is, as it were, the prime unwritten rule that the crown does not interfere with the running of the country: the government is quite capable of making a balls-up of that by itself. Any such interference would have fairly profound consequences (if it became public, obviously).

    The true purpose of the monarchy is a tourist attraction. Given how successful the royal family is at this, the general silliness of the concept of can, usually, be forgiven.
    Last edited by Cilarith; 2013-01-28 at 11:35 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Right, I can intellectually understand that it's been drilled into people's heads the same way that a loathing of monarchy has been drilled into mine. I just don't really get how it stays in place in a populace that stops and thinks about whether it's just for a couple minutes.
    Because in countries that got rid of the monarchy, the kings were basically dictators.
    We have a king because he got rid of the dictators

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    umm, why can't you have both?
    Because they all had daughters and when they marry their husband is named "prince".
    That's basically because: King > Queen and we need to make it clear that the true heir is the 'boss'.

  9. #69
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Its more like that they do not do anything and can be seen as either a beacon for our culture or as useful tourist magnets. My country has the oldest surviving monarchy - AND flag.
    And? That generates personal pride for you? I understand why (since, for example, Croatia was a kingdom even before Denmark), but can you specify an inherently positive thing in this pride?

    I could, for example, give you a negative side to being a monarchy, and that's the fact that you're all constitutionally inferior to your king. Your constitution says one person is by birth superior to another.
    Last edited by Wikiy; 2013-01-28 at 11:37 PM.

  10. #70
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    And? That generates personal pride for you? I understand why, but can you give an inherently positive thing in this pride?

    I could, for example, give you a negative side to being a monarchy, and that's the fact that you're all constitutionally inferior to your king. Your constitution says one person is by birth superior to another.
    Personally i dont really care but its a thing for many others. Especially with more immigrants coming you see a core around the "traditional" danish-ness forming.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Right, I can intellectually understand that it's been drilled into people's heads the same way that a loathing of monarchy has been drilled into mine. I just don't really get how it stays in place in a populace that stops and thinks about whether it's just for a couple minutes.
    It seems ludicrously foreign to me as well, but that's honestly just because it is. I mean, look at how many Europeans come bounding into the "lets revoke the second amendment" threads- that's not part of their upbringing either. It's just a cultural difference.

    Anyway, good luck to the Netherlands!

  12. #72
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    I could, for example, give you a negative side to being a monarchy, and that's the fact that you're all constitutionally inferior to your king. Your constitution says one person is by birth superior to another.
    Define "superior".

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    It seems ludicrously foreign to me as well, but that's honestly just because it is. I mean, look at how many Europeans come bounding into the "lets revoke the second amendment" threads- that's not part of their upbringing either. It's just a cultural difference.

    Anyway, good luck to the Netherlands!
    The british queen is making tons of money for the English and is a brand for them around the world. Why would they get rid of her?

    If you say the Queen you immediately think of the british one. The whole first page of this thread was people expecting it to be the british one rather than the netherlandic one.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I still can't fathom why Europeans haven't taken an "off with their heads" approach to monarchs and reappropriated their possessions to the nations.
    Other people have mentioned the revenue they generate for the country so all I'll add is, as a diplomat royal families are usually fairly well received in foreign countries, especially those that lack one of their own. It's nice to have a diplomat whose mere presence in the country will be covered by countless journalists, who can also exert some political pressure all under the guise of a friendly meeting between state heads.

  15. #75
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Define "superior".
    The definition doesn't matter (and I don't understand why you'd want it either way), what matters is that the royal family automatically get stuff no one else in your country could ever get. And it's given to them by the constitution.

    Sorry, but I'm a socialist. I find systems that automatically privilege certain people repulsing, and that privilege is written in your constitution.

  16. #76
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    lol I was soooo expecting something about Queen Elizabeth II when clicking this thread ^^

    Even though it has happened before, I would still imagine it as a big deal. It's an entire country changing monarch.
    As was I! Curses. I got all excited. >=I

    Odd that the monarchs have been abdicating so frequently in Holland. Any idea why they don't just keep the throne warm until they 'check out'? Do monarchs in the Netherlands have more taxing duties than the Windsors?

  17. #77
    The Unstoppable Force RICH8472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    As was I! Curses. I got all excited. >=I

    Odd that the monarchs have been abdicating so frequently in Holland. Any idea why they don't just keep the throne warm until they 'check out'? Do monarchs in the Netherlands have more taxing duties than the Windsors?
    Why would you get excited about Lizzie abdicating? Surely she is better than that buffoon Charles?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I still can't fathom why Europeans haven't taken an "off with their heads" approach to monarchs and reappropriated their possessions to the nations.
    We kind of did. There was this war, with a Spanish despot who controlled much of Western Europe, and the Dutch kind of kicked them out. And then appointed a king of their own.
    To create a kingdom was a democratic decision. Ironically, the first king of the Netherlands didn't have that much of a say in it.
    Being a kingdom allowed the Netherlands to trade with many more nations, and opened up all sorts of doors. The Dutch kingdom (which it, indeed, hasn't been for very long in Dutch history) has always been democratic, and has always been a republic. Dutch royalty has never had much in terms of political power. They've always had a diplomatic role, first and foremost.

  19. #79
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Why would you get excited about Lizzie abdicating? Surely she is better than that buffoon Charles?
    I'd hope it would spark discussion of whether or not we should bother with the monarchy after the old bird inevitably goes the way of the dodo.
    Get rid of the monarchs and replace the House of Lords with a democratically elected body, I say. 'God Save The King' just sounds too archaic for us to have Charles follow up Lizzie's reign. The anthem's deflating enough as it is already!

    I see the pro-monarchy £££ tourism argument has already come up, but my response is that the palace at Versailles receives an average of 5 million visitors per year and the French lopped Louis XVI's head off centuries ago!

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think you just answered your own question. Getting a PM's ear and taking a prime leadership role in foreign engagement is a fair bit of political clout for someone with no real qualifications other than being born to the right person.
    I think you're attributing far too much power to her. She offers advice. The examples I've heard of are along the lines of: "that dictator giving you grief loves golf, you could try arrange a golf date". It's not taking "a prime leadership role" by any means.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 01:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    As was I! Curses. I got all excited. >=I

    Odd that the monarchs have been abdicating so frequently in Holland. Any idea why they don't just keep the throne warm until they 'check out'? Do monarchs in the Netherlands have more taxing duties than the Windsors?
    It's their tradition.

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