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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    I think you're attributing far too much power to her. She offers advice. The examples I've heard of are along the lines of: "that dictator giving you grief loves golf, you could try arrange a golf date". It's not taking "a prime leadership role" by any means.
    On top of that, the qualifications are quite good, to be honest. You don't find many politicians with over thirty years of intensive education dedicated to that field specifically. Royals do get that much education on the matters. Politicians get four. If you're insanely lucky; most of them have zero.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    On top of that, the qualifications are quite good, to be honest. You don't find many politicians with over thirty years of intensive education dedicated to that field specifically. Royals do get that much education on the matters. Politicians get four. If you're insanely lucky; most of them have zero.
    Though tbh it relies on the sovereign being dedicated to their job as the Queen is. Imagine getting, say, George IV. It's also why I prefer an elective monarchy, possibly with restricted candidacy. Tanistry anyone?

  3. #83
    As a dutch guy i don't really care, a spoiled brat is going out and another spoiled brat is going in.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Though tbh it relies on the sovereign being dedicated to their job as the Queen is. Imagine getting, say, George IV. It's also why I prefer an elective monarchy, possibly with restricted candidacy. Tanistry anyone?
    Absolutely true. An elective monarchy would be a bit weird, though; either elect your tyrant, or don't. :P
    Elected tyranny with the people's right to depose said tyrant if they're doing an awful job and refuse to quit is actually something I'd personally endorse. With elected council, of course. That's pretty much what the US government has, and I agree with the premise; it would be great if it was more about serving the populace, and less about serving the country. It would be the best of both worlds, so to speak.
    Royals aren't trained in politics as such, though. They're trained mostly at diplomacy and warfare. Yups; it's an ancient custom, but the main reason we've got kings is war. Public relations are really a king's thing, so princes must serve in the military, must be deployed in time of war at least once (usually more often). That's going to be interesting as the next in line for the Dutch throne is female. It would be refreshing if she would also serve in the military like her father did.
    Anyway, so yeah: Public relations.

    Ruling the country is something that is governed by politics, justice and police. Not kings.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    The definition doesn't matter (and I don't understand why you'd want it either way), what matters is that the royal family automatically get stuff no one else in your country could ever get. And it's given to them by the constitution.

    Sorry, but I'm a socialist. I find systems that automatically privilege certain people repulsing, and that privilege is written in your constitution.
    The son of my rich neighbours will also automatically get all their stuff because of the law, is that wrong too?

    I'm a socialist too, but I don't have a problem with our monarchy.
    That's probably because we got them in a different way.

    Most monarchies are "forced" on the nation whereas we "chose" to have a monarchy.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    Pretty good news, Even though the Queen was a nice lady she deserves some rest now
    Gotta agree with this. I've been alive for the entirety of her reign and I've always found her to be an outstanding and very dedicated person. Even during the last harsh year with the Friso accident she continued to her job to the best of her abilities . I am somewhat sad to see her abdicate but she deserves the rest. The news did come as a surprise to me as I always thought she'd go on for some more years. Rumor has it that she didn't want to make the same sad case out of Willem Alexander as is happening to Prince Charles.

    Besides Willem Alexander will make a great King, he is closer to the people.
    Last edited by Cairhiin; 2013-01-29 at 11:40 AM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    The son of my rich neighbours will also automatically get all their stuff because of the law, is that wrong too?

    I'm a socialist too, but I don't have a problem with our monarchy.
    That's probably because we got them in a different way.

    Most monarchies are "forced" on the nation whereas we "chose" to have a monarchy.
    I think most socialists in the countries with monarchs dont mind them because they do nothing. If they started stealing things from stores, assaulted others and the likes i think the attitude towards them would change.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baiyn View Post
    As was I! Curses. I got all excited. >=I

    Odd that the monarchs have been abdicating so frequently in Holland. Any idea why they don't just keep the throne warm until they 'check out'? Do monarchs in the Netherlands have more taxing duties than the Windsors?
    The Queen said that 'responsibility for our country should be in the hands of the new generation.'
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  9. #89
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    http://nos.nl/video/24976-interview-...-bernhard.html

    Came across this, we need a king and queen like this again. (sorry, no subs!)

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think you just answered your own question. Getting a PM's ear and taking a prime leadership role in foreign engagement is a fair bit of political clout for someone with no real qualifications other than being born to the right person.
    I think the thing you dont get is that that guy isnt just born to be king, he is raised to be king aswell.
    These people dedecate their whole lifes to the crown and to their contry. And for the political role the queen has played over the years is verry overstated.
    And I for one am happy with the royalty in the Netherlands, i'd rather have them represend the contry then like Berlousconi or Merkel.
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I think you just answered your own question. Getting a PM's ear and taking a prime leadership role in foreign engagement is a fair bit of political clout for someone with no real qualifications other than being born to the right person.
    They are like diplomats(our crown princess has gone through years of education and got a lot of experience dealing with the officials from other countries), they are very well versed on their countries official policy on different issues and travel around the world gaining good will for the nation. They are just as qualified if not more so then a diplomat.

    This is the education our Crown princess has gone through. No real qualifications?
    Victoria attended a state elementary school (Ålstensskolan) and Enskilda Gymnasiet in Stockholm, graduating in 1996. She next studied for a year (1996/97) at the Université Catholique de l'Ouest at Angers in France, and in the fall term of 1997 participated in a special program following the work of the Parliament of Sweden. During the years 1998 to 2000, Victoria resided in the United States, where she studied various subjects at Yale University, New Haven, Connecticut.

    In May 1999 she was an intern at the Swedish Embassy in Washington, D.C. In 2000, she studied conflict resolution and international peacekeeping at the Swedish National Defence College (Försvarshögskolan). Victoria followed the Swedish presidency of the European Union and completed a study program at the Government Offices (Rosenbad) in 2001.

    During spring semester 2002, Victoria completed a study program with the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency (Sida), and in June and September was an intern at the United Nations in New York; in the fall she was an intern at the Swedish Trade Council's offices in Berlin and Paris. In 2003, Victoria's education continued with visits to Swedish businesses, a study and intern program in agriculture and forestry, as well as completion of the basic soldier training at SWEDINT (the Swedish Armed Forces International Centre).

    In 2004, Victoria continued with visits to Swedish businesses, and that fall she continued with courses in political science, international relations and conflict resolution at the Swedish National Defence College. In 2005, she continued with private tutored studies in society-related subjects as well as some courses at the University of Stockholm.

    In 2006, Victoria enrolled in the Ministry for Foreign Affairs' Diplomat Program, running from September 2006 to June 2007. The program is a training program for young future diplomats and gives an insight to the ministry's work, Swedish foreign and security policies and Sweden's relations with the rest of the world. The education entails lectures, seminars, group work and visits to authorities and institutions. In 2007, Victoria studied French privately and held an internship at the Permanent Representation of Sweden to the European Union. In June 2009, she graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Uppsala University.
    Last edited by Jackmoves; 2013-01-30 at 01:10 PM.
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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookeh View Post
    i plan on moving out of this country within 4 years my family remains and thus far i'm absolutely not impressed with how our government keeps taking more and more money from the people rather than spending less, it's pathetic.
    Actualy you wont get it any better in the netherlands then anywhere else in europe maybe if you would move to asia or australia xD
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  13. #93
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endonyx View Post
    Actualy you wont get it any better in the netherlands then anywhere else in europe maybe if you would move to asia or australia xD
    You'd be extremely surprised, you only have to take a look at our neighbours to the east. They pay MUCH less in taxes yet they actualy have money to spend in most areas such as healthcare while we're being forced to pay more and more every single year for no good reason. It feels more like being a bully to me rather than being there for the people. Now they're complaining about there not being enough jobs and they raise taxes on wages and they put taxes on oldtimers causing even more people to lose their jobs.

  14. #94
    The Lightbringer Kerath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookeh View Post
    You'd be extremely surprised, you only have to take a look at our neighbours to the east. They pay MUCH less in taxes yet they actualy have money to spend in most areas such as healthcare while we're being forced to pay more and more every single year for no good reason. It feels more like being a bully to me rather than being there for the people. Now they're complaining about there not being enough jobs and they raise taxes on wages and they put taxes on oldtimers causing even more people to lose their jobs.
    They pay less in income taxes but the social security costs are quite high (when you take into account pension + unemployment + healthcare + nursing care insurances).
    You might find these useful, if you're seriously considering a move.
    http://www.connectingindians.com/ind...nTaxCalculator (the website is aimed at Indian nationals coming to work in Germany, but the tax calculator is a good tool).
    http://www.expatica.com/de/finance_b...3747_9948.html
    Expatica is a bloody useful website in general for anyone looking to relocate to another country.

    I guess how much cheaper Germany actually is for you, depends on whereabouts your income falls in the tax tables, as their highest tax bracket is a much lower rate than in the Netherlands, and you need to earn a much higher wage in Germany before you hit the top tax bracket than in the Netherlands too.
    For someone like me though, I'm actually financially better off in the Netherlands by quite a bit all told.

    Edit to add... When you said neighbours to the east, I assumed Germany. Sorry if I've assumed incorrectly.
    Last edited by Kerath; 2013-01-31 at 03:16 PM.
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  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Wookeh View Post
    http://nos.nl/video/24976-interview-...-bernhard.html

    Came across this, we need a king and queen like this again. (sorry, no subs!)
    Jules? Sure. Bernhard? No. I'm sorry; royalty exists to work. They should work. Not give passes to expensive (and useless) aircraft, not go screwing anything of the opposite gender, and not spending months killing things in far-off places.

    This is how a monarchy works: It's out monarchy. Our king. We're not their people; they're our people. In return, they get to have a very wealthy life... But the people rules the monarchy, and the monarchy shouldn't just laze about.
    Bernhard couldn't handle the job. He should never have been let into the kitchen.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Still a big deal to the Dutch I'd reckon; not every day a "monarchy" changes.
    Not really, only to those who love the monarchy. Those who think we can do without don't really care. I'm somewhere in the middle: I don't care either way.

  17. #97
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerath View Post
    They pay less in income taxes but the social security costs are quite high (when you take into account pension + unemployment + healthcare + nursing care insurances).
    You might find these useful, if you're seriously considering a move.
    http://www.connectingindians.com/ind...nTaxCalculator (the website is aimed at Indian nationals coming to work in Germany, but the tax calculator is a good tool).
    http://www.expatica.com/de/finance_b...3747_9948.html
    Expatica is a bloody useful website in general for anyone looking to relocate to another country.

    I guess how much cheaper Germany actually is for you, depends on whereabouts your income falls in the tax tables, as their highest tax bracket is a much lower rate than in the Netherlands, and you need to earn a much higher wage in Germany before you hit the top tax bracket than in the Netherlands too.
    For someone like me though, I'm actually financially better off in the Netherlands by quite a bit all told.

    Edit to add... When you said neighbours to the east, I assumed Germany. Sorry if I've assumed incorrectly.
    I'm moving to Sweden, taxes are higher there i'm aware of that but that's alright considering the prices to live are a lot cheaper. My nephew bought a house about 8 months ago for 280.000 euro's.... 3 small bedrooms, small yard you can't even let your dog poop in and a living room you basically have to watch your step in or you might just bump against anything in there. My mother bought a hose in Sweden (Vasternorrlands lan) for a about 1.2 milion kroner and it's three times the size of my nephew's house with 5h of land.

    I don't know an "overly amount" of Germany, i just know three people that live just over the border in Germany but work in The Netherlands... they all drive new cars which they couldn't afford here due to the absurd amount of taxes on it and they live in a very nice house they bought for a heck of a lot cheaper compared to a similar house here in this country.

    The average wait time for a social renting home (under 650 euro's a month excluding water, gas en electricity) is depending on location, average of 7 to 25 years..... that's rediculous and it's only getting worse and worse as only the "select few" get a loan from the bank to buy a house so they all try to rent.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Wookeh View Post
    I'm moving to Sweden, taxes are higher there i'm aware of that but that's alright considering the prices to live are a lot cheaper. My nephew bought a house about 8 months ago for 280.000 euro's.... 3 small bedrooms, small yard you can't even let your dog poop in and a living room you basically have to watch your step in or you might just bump against anything in there. My mother bought a hose in Sweden (Vasternorrlands lan) for a about 1.2 milion kroner and it's three times the size of my nephew's house with 5h of land.

    I don't know an "overly amount" of Germany, i just know three people that live just over the border in Germany but work in The Netherlands... they all drive new cars which they couldn't afford here due to the absurd amount of taxes on it and they live in a very nice house they bought for a heck of a lot cheaper compared to a similar house here in this country.

    The average wait time for a social renting home (under 650 euro's a month excluding water, gas en electricity) is depending on location, average of 7 to 25 years..... that's rediculous and it's only getting worse and worse as only the "select few" get a loan from the bank to buy a house so they all try to rent.
    You're right, btw (vats) is 21% now, BPM + roadtaxes are off the scale, insurance is expensive as hell due to calculating the price of the car at the moment you bought it, instead of the day value used by other countries. Lower taxscale went from 33 to 37%, middle taxscale went up with 0.05% and the higher? lol, nope not any higher. unemployment time (70% of last earned loan) is reduced to 1year, healthcare has been sober, and more expensive. So I understand you, Wookeh, personally if this country sinks, I give a flying rats arse.
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  19. #99
    The Lightbringer Kerath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookeh View Post
    I'm moving to Sweden, taxes are higher there i'm aware of that but that's alright considering the prices to live are a lot cheaper. My nephew bought a house about 8 months ago for 280.000 euro's.... 3 small bedrooms, small yard you can't even let your dog poop in and a living room you basically have to watch your step in or you might just bump against anything in there. My mother bought a hose in Sweden (Vasternorrlands lan) for a about 1.2 milion kroner and it's three times the size of my nephew's house with 5h of land.

    I don't know an "overly amount" of Germany, i just know three people that live just over the border in Germany but work in The Netherlands... they all drive new cars which they couldn't afford here due to the absurd amount of taxes on it and they live in a very nice house they bought for a heck of a lot cheaper compared to a similar house here in this country.

    The average wait time for a social renting home (under 650 euro's a month excluding water, gas en electricity) is depending on location, average of 7 to 25 years..... that's rediculous and it's only getting worse and worse as only the "select few" get a loan from the bank to buy a house so they all try to rent.
    Yeah, tax in Sweden is pretty high, I've no idea how the cost of living compares to NL though. I do know the taxes on purchasing a car and having a car are high in NL - we don't have a car in my household though, so that saves us a fortune. When the other half's car got totalled we didn't bother replacing it as we used it maybe once or twice a month at most. Simply not worth the cost of keeping a car on the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    You're right, btw (vats) is 21% now, BPM + roadtaxes are off the scale, insurance is expensive as hell due to calculating the price of the car at the moment you bought it, instead of the day value used by other countries. Lower taxscale went from 33 to 37%, middle taxscale went up with 0.05% and the higher? lol, nope not any higher. unemployment time (70% of last earned loan) is reduced to 1year, healthcare has been sober, and more expensive. So I understand you, Wookeh, personally if this country sinks, I give a flying rats arse.
    I would just say to anyone considering a move, to be careful and look very thoroughly before planning a move. The grass may look greener on the other side, but many countries with pensions and healthcare covered by social insurance are suffering due to aging population, for example. I guess what I'm saying is - the problems are there in the Netherlands, but they're also the same problems in quite a lot of other places.
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  20. #100
    High five Kerath, you get to stay .

    And who has trouble buying a house now? They are cheap as hell.

    Oh you didn't save? You should tell a German that in the Netherlands it was almost common to get a mortgage for 110% of the actual value of the house. They will laugh . I don't know how Sweden is but if it is the same as in the Netherlands now, it means you need to bring money yourself. If you bring in 15%+ of the value yourself and a fixed contract with your employer, the bank is happy to help you.
    And when comparing houses, you might not want to compare houses in the center of a city in the Randstad with some remote place in Sweden. I am pretty sure that for €280.000 you wont be able to buy much in the center of Stockholm neiter.
    Last edited by Bolson13; 2013-02-01 at 11:40 AM.

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