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  1. #1

    Good pugs a thing of the past?

    Heya all.

    I've found this expansion extremely frustrating trying to fill our 10m. I'd say about 75% of the time we have a solid guild run but when we had to pug it hardly ever goes well. I usually spam for about an hour, if i need dps they're somewhat easy to get if you want to carry an under geared non-enchanted casual player. Tanks and healers are almost non existent. Most of our core players are tanks and healers however we find people have to post out for one reason or another.

    I play on a well populated server. In Cata it was super easy to find solid pugs. My thoughts are this is a problem with the way mist of grindaria has eliminated the amount of Alts people have. I don't have any facts backing that up other than see'n what is going on in our guild. But regardless of my guild, getting pugs is a nightmare. It's to the point that I'm about to cancel our alt run. Which leads me to think that it's a matter of time before we lose a couple more people and find a different game.

    You guys having trouble finding good pugs? How long do you have to spam to get someone? Anyone else feeling the pug frustration?

  2. #2
    Casual puggers just LFR now. They don't want to "waste time" getting stat food, flasks, reading strats, etc

  3. #3
    because far fewers good players are willing to level and gear an alt. which I believe is what the majority of good pugs consisted of previously
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  4. #4
    Honestly, putting together a successful pug is *harder* than running a guild raid. COnsider that, and the ease of LFR and most people just can't be bothered to deal with it (and by "people" I mean both those who would JOIN a pug and, more importantly, those who know how to successfully *RUN* a pug)

  5. #5
    It's a much bigger time commitment to maintain an alt now than before. A lot of ppl don't have that time to waste.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsz View Post
    Casual puggers just LFR now. They don't want to "waste time" getting stat food, flasks, reading strats, etc
    The fights on Normal really aren't much different than LFR so I don't think reading strats is an issue. Plus, it's a chance at getting better gear so who wouldn't want to run a Normal raid over LFR? My main issue is that I feel these guilds are probably pretty bad and I don't want to join just to wipe with them.

    Nothing can hold me back!

  7. #7
    Nowadays people who can raid with a guild (Schedule and gear permitting) just raid with their guild, and alts either join their guild's alt-runs (If said guild does them) or do LFR, either way, they're no longer dependent on other guilds looking for raid-fillers to raid anymore...

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Csnyder's Avatar
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    ive never had a problem with pugs, some of the most progressed players on my server are guildless and pug everything, maybe switch to a better server

  9. #9
    Meh - We've occassionally PuG'd a spot or two, and have had success with meeting some cool people who are good players. YMMV?

  10. #10
    It may depend on your server, I play on Illidan-US and there is quite a lot of successful pugs happening. I usually run with my guild but i successfully pugged 4/6 HM MSV over Christmas when everyone was off.

  11. #11
    So the solution to get good raiders who actually have Alts is to switch servers?

    I'm on Korgath, pretty active server. There was an abundance of Alts who would pug during cata. Our server is still as active if not more activity this expansion. The problem lies in alt grinds. As well as raid difficulty. The majority of pugs I find cannot dodge wind bombs, or run out when they get fire on feng, god forbid we get one that has to deal with jasper chains.

    I like the difficulty of the raids. I just wish it was eaiser to get Alts geared for actual raiders.

  12. #12
    One thing that doesn't really help either is that people aren't idling in there town like before. I don't know if my server PuGs anymore (pugged cata normals entirely, but lets face it, I'm rarely in that channel anymore because I'm almost never there anymore.

  13. #13
    We're also in the first tier of the expansion.

    In Cata, you had loads of ways to really easily gear alts a few tiers in:
    • VP Gear
    • BoE VP Gear
    • New 5 mans
    • JP Gear = Previous VP Gear
    • LFR

    In the first tier of Cata, you had:
    • VP Gear
    • BoE VP Gear
    • New 5 mans
    • JP Gear = Previous VP Gear
    • LFR

    Not to mention they added pet battles, dailies, item upgrades, loads of LFR, and a huge tier; lots to do on your main. Should be better next tier if they turn current VP gear into JP gear.

  14. #14
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    In the first tier of Cata, you had:
    • VP Gear
    • BoE VP Gear
    • New 5 mans
    • JP Gear = Previous VP Gear
    • LFR
    Why are we discounting LFR? That's how I've geared two alts and my main before we started real raiding.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    Why are we discounting LFR? That's how I've geared two alts and my main before we started real raiding.
    LFR didn't show up until the final tier of cata, that list is talking about the first tier of cata...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    LFR didn't show up until the final tier of cata, that list is talking about the first tier of cata...
    I'm just saying the same thing happened in Cata. There were not many ways to gear an alt.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Most of this is because we're still in the first tier. Hence alts have to be leveled as well as geared, which is difficult to do in one tier. Hardcore players (the kind with the alts that carry the pugs) are still either in progression mode, or are in heavy preparation mode for next tier if they are done with progression. There isn't a previous tier to gear up with, and there aren't nerfs out yet, so a lot of mechanics are still very unforgiving toward pugs/disorganized groups.

    Also, this tier is much bigger than the last, so even clears and especially progression guilds will be spending a much bigger chunk of the week raiding, so they have less time for pugs especially if they want a few days a week to "have a life."

    When DS clears were 2 hours a week, I had way more time to pug. Since Dragon Nerf was so easy to pug, I didn't have to worry (as much) about the pug being a complete fucking waste of my time, so I was more willing to join them.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Have done normal mode clears in pugs this tier, however i found that there are more skilled casuals wanting to do a raid run right after the reset on Wednesdays or Thursdays rather then on Monday or Tuesday, doing it later in the reset you often get more bad apples wanting in to the group (i.e 35k-40k dps and moving from stuff after having stood in it for 4+ seconds, shortly put people who wiped groups earlier or can not get in to them because of various reasons ) Using a voice com helps greatly but it depends a bit on what day of the week you do the run if you join trade groups and if they actually check the armory of people, groups that invite anyone that asks is a big no in my eyes.

    So yes, had successful pugging on alts but depends a bit on when and what group you join.

  19. #19
    Made a HoF full clear pug a week back and only wiped once on garalon and maybe 3-4 on amber shaper and twice on Empress. Was actually impressed of that

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    The fights on Normal really aren't much different than LFR so I don't think reading strats is an issue. Plus, it's a chance at getting better gear so who wouldn't want to run a Normal raid over LFR? My main issue is that I feel these guilds are probably pretty bad and I don't want to join just to wipe with them.
    There are several issues with pug raiding right now:
    1) The laid back casuals just do LFR. If I'm not going to do progression raiding in guild all I want is purple pixels and tier set. I don't really care about the ilvl on them, and besides, the LFR color combination usually looks the best anyway.
    2) The alts of players from the middle of the pack guilds (cutting edge guilds are probably keeping their alts for themselves) just aren't there for reasons others have stated.
    3) A lot of the bosses have some kind of mechanic that will wipe whole raid because of single individual's failure. Basically only Terrace is 'retard proof' to some extent. But then that is difficult for different reasons...

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