1. #1

    Ret - Bringing back a Struggling Spec

    I've seen a lot of great ret changes suggested but most are so drastic that I cant see blizz implementing them.

    Credit to Rtf for a lot of great ideas
    Credit to Guyviroth for some good Ideas

    Main problems with Ret atm:
    Low sustained damage
    Too high burst damage (cooldown stacking)
    Low selfhealing
    Low survivability outside of a dispellable 5min cd
    We bring nothing that holy/prot don't

    Some Suggestions for peeps to leave comments on. Dont think we'd get all these changes, but each one weighed on its own. A lot of these are to help Ret PvP but reasonable PvE changes are welcome as well.

    #1) I would love to see DS duration lowered down to say 6 sec or even 4 (you'd have to change the hearth glyph so it would still work) and have its cooldown dropped to maybe 3 min to put is more on the level of other classes abilities such as dispersion, could even have dmg reduced by 80-90% insead of 50%. DS is an iconic ability but it feels so weak compared to other classes dmg mitigation since its dispellable. The way it is now with a 5 min CD you should have no dmg dealt reduction as that wouldn't buff holy, but even that doesnt help our survivability.

    #2) Bring back Hand of Freedom removing stuns even if it means having to change the clemency talent for rets so they cant self cast 2 before the CD but still allowing us to use it x2 on party members. Would have to read something like - Hand of Freedom now grants removal of stuns (25 sec CD). Gives rets an ability that holy/prot can't bring to RBG/Arena !!!

    #3) Bring back the old ret talent which gave us a shield when we dropped below 30% HP. Give it a 90 sec CD instead of the 1 min it used to be. This would help the fact that our only real CD to survive is long as hell and keep us from getting globaled. This could be really op on say a holy/prot so it would have to be ret only. Would read - When the paladin is reduced to lower than 30% HP he receives a shield absorbing damage equal to 30% of his max HP. Shield lasts for 6 sec or until broken. 90 Sec CD. Numbers would have to be tweaked. (If we got this bubble CD wouldn't be needed as badly.)

    #4) Selfless Healer - This damn talent feels strange as it is even though i know its quite good I personally think it should reduce the HP cost of WoG by 1 per judgement stacking up to 3 times and increasing the effectiveness of WoG by 20% per stack when used on other characters. This allows for you to not have to sacrifice so much dmg and makes it feel more like a selfless healer. Flash of Light should still have a cast time perhaps reducing FoL cast time down to a minimum of 1 sec and have its heal increased by 80% base and an additional 20% per stack giving you a choice to cast a 1 sec FoL or a instant no HP cost WoG for a bit less. My thoughts behind this are it should give you a choice between using WoG for a heal and FoL. Numbers would need tweaking.

    #5) Hand of Protection - Great spell if your going against physical but useless against magic. Change it up to reduce damage done to the target by 40% so that its a better support spell. Allow it to not put forbearance on the target to bring it closer to what the other hand spells are. Its kind of like a improved version of Hand of Sacrifice. I'd also drop the CD to maybe 3 min.

    #6) Repentance - I can understand why holy needs a cast time for it but ret really needs to have a way to remove the cast such as The Art of War removing the Cast time but increasing the CD by 10-15 sec.

    #7) Burden of Guilt should be tied to ret only or they need to make seal of justice the clear winner for PvP.

    Some changes I've seen on forums around here that are good steps in the right direction:

    1. Concecration should be baseline.

    2. Divine Storm, shouldn't cost Holy Power or share a cooldown with anything. - This spell should be something that will make you go OOM fast if you spam it but not deal more dmg than single target rotation.

    3. Judgement should auto crit on stunned targets. - Great Idea. Gives you a little extra burst and a reason to HoJ or FoJ your target other than to just CC them. Might be a little but much but with other proposed changes below I think this would synergize well.

    Changes that are really well thought out. Taken from and credit to Rtf

    - GoTAK STR bonus removed. Now transforms the paladin into a Holy crusader (same skin as GoTAK pet) Auto attacks now cause x% more damage as holy damage. (same damage as current GoTAK melee swings) 1 min cd, lasts 20 seconds.

    This should be our short bust CD or should become a Talent so prot / holy can get it since I've seen many Rets despise having a pet but others like it. 20 sec duration is a bit long for a 1 min CD as well 12-15 sec seem more appropriate.

    - Holy avenger baseline. When used the next 3 moves which would consume HP are free and deal 30% more damage as Holy. 1min CD (Ret only)

    Great Idea but with a 1 min CD I feel like the dmg should only be inceased by 20% (down from 30%) to keep us from ungoly bust and having it on a differnt CD from wings makes you have to think about waiting the 30 sec for wings or using it every min. (gives us rotation choices for CDs)

    I almost feel that Holy Avenger and GoTAK could be combined to give -> Auto attacks now cause x% more damage as holy damage. And your next 3 ablilites that consume holy power are free and deal 20% more damage and healing. Lasts 15 sec, 1 min CD. This Drops our Burst slightly and gives us 1 less CD to deal with.

    - Wings reduced to 15% increased damage. 90 second CD. Lasts 15 seconds.

    Lowers our crazy burst a little while making it available on a more reasonable CD. Great Change.

    - Art of War - added ability to make Flash of Light to become instant as well as its Exorcism benefits. This should increase our Heal output by a good amount, with the trade-off of damage.

    Phenomenal Idea that gives us another choice between abilities. I would say adding on top of that a 20% chance when struck allows for a instant cast FoL would help our self healing in pvp immensely. Also synergizes with Selfless healer in all ways.

    - Divine purpose now baseline.

    To all the rets that hate Inq with our holy power generation as it is currently and with this as a baseline ret passive its amazing and easy as hell to keep up. The trade off of extra sustain making this passive vs having to keep up inq is a good trade. I might like to see inq as 15 sec per HP. This adds some spice to our rotation.

    >>> Perhaps change DP (or give ret a new passive all together) to grant an additional holy power on crits so its just like ferals and less RNG since i know peeps hate RNG. <<< Would def make crit slightly better stat and I like the idea of it being a new passive.

    Just some of my thoughts, I do feel ret needs some love, maybe not as much as some people think but we do need some changes that will not indirectly buff holy/prot.

    Edited for Spelling, Adding ideas from below comments, etc.

  2. #2
    So you want to have burden of guilt, fist of justice and repentance at the same time?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    So you want to have burden of guilt, fist of justice and repentance at the same time?
    It may sound like a lot but just compare to what Warriors, Rogues and Monks have and it's suddenly reasonable.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregz21 View Post
    So you want to have burden of guilt, fist of justice and repentance at the same time?
    No, but BoG needs to be baseline or changed. A root doesn't compete with a CC.

    I agree with your proposed Divine Shield change. Abilities like Dispersion and Deterrence are flat out better, and on much shorter cooldowns.
    I also agree with having weaker CD's, but minute cooldowns. Almost feel like this should be across the board, all classes.
    I think being Cata Sacred Shield, Bubble change, cooldown changes, and baseline DP would make us fine. And take some of the healing off of FoL they just put there and shift it over to WoG. Just because FoL is "riskier" (their terminology) doesn't mean it should be more rewarding than dropping damage. WoG should heal much harder, even if they had to put it on like a 6-8 second CD. As it is right now, we lost the CD restriction from Cata, but it's not even worth pressing.

  5. #5
    Blademaster Icecold3000's Avatar
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    I agree with Raioken.
    We need mini bursts.
    Dont be burst dependent.
    I dont like stacking too many cooldowns to blow someone up, is not interesting and skillful.
    I mean..... activating GoAK+Wings+HA+On use trinket, is easy, counterable, boring and predictable.

    Expasions back we use to have unique utility.
    What UNIQUE utility does Ret have now?
    ........absolutely none , nobody wants a Ret paladins in RBGS !!

    Back in Wrath.
    What other utility did Ret have?
    -Cleanse magic
    -Sacred Shield Baseline
    -Glyph of Salvation : 20% dmg reduction when you cast on yourself.
    -Old Divine Guardian :A second sacrifice spell which also reduced all party damage by 20%
    -Vindication (AP reduction debuff)
    -Baseline Repentance
    -Freedom out of stuns
    -Art of War - instant FoL
    Look at all the reasons Ret was desirable, so just to name a few, and the list could go on and on.

  6. #6
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Closing this thread.

    Thank you for your post, however, this is too much alike the already existing topic [Ret Ideas] Reworking Retribution which is a currently active thread, and only a few posts down, in fact it looks like some of the ideas are coming directly from there already.

    In the future if you're creating a thread talking about ideas to fix/change/rework Retribution in the future please put it in the thread where the discussion about fixing/changing/reworking Retribution is already taking place. -Krekko
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
    | [MoP]Ret Paladin Guide | Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |

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