View Poll Results: Expertise 7.5% or 15%

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  • Expertise 7.5%

    56 65.88%
  • Expertise 15%

    24 28.24%
  • Somewhere in between

    5 5.88%
  1. #1

    What do you use, Expertise 7.5% or 15%?

    Just to get an idea so I don't have to click on all of your character screens to figure it out (especially if you're logged out in os gear/spec) what you're using.
    Pretty straight forward. I know the pros and cons of both, but see about a 40/60 split in favor of 7.5%. I myself do 7.5% but thats because my guild were not close to cutting edge and just starting to get into MSV further and further (on Spirit Kings now). Thanks

    Edit: For Brewmasters. I assume all WW are at 7.5%
    Last edited by Herkaleez; 2013-01-29 at 02:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans zephid's Avatar
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    7.5% expertise is all you need, just make sure you stand behind the mob.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord
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    Tank, go 15%. DPS, all you need is 7.5, except some hard modes.

  4. #4
    I'm guessing you mean as BM? Might want to clarify.

  5. #5
    Tanking, 7.5%.

  6. #6
    At the moment? I'm going with 7.5, from my normal in the middle-ish value of 10-12%. My previous attempt at 7.5 didn't go according to what I wanted, but I suspect that may have been ascension rather than the cap. So I think power strikes may make a difference, aiming to get enough haste to get 13.33 regen.

  7. #7
    i revolve between this forums and official forums. Keep seeing top tier BRM Monks fighting over 15% (it's more reliable!) and 7.5% (You miss 2 keg smashes in a fight!) all the time.

    On one hand, very interesting and intelligent discourse over the stat weights, which makes for a varied and dynamic game.

    On the other, sometimes you wanna just play the class and not worry about the theory so much :P

  8. #8
    A bit over 8% here, but thats mainly because I just have a lot of raw expertise on my gear. Been reforging out of it like it's going out of style. Really, you only need 7.5%. Any higher's just comfort fluff.

  9. #9
    7.5% is all you need, but I am testing 15% right now to put this argument to rest. People will still do what they want of course, but what is needed/recommended is all I am concerned with.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    7.5% is all you need, but I am testing 15% right now to put this argument to rest. People will still do what they want of course, but what is needed/recommended is all I am concerned with.
    Like I said I do the 7.5% myself and see an issue with it but it does seem like a lot of the BrMs I check are at 15% if you could post something either way I'd be interested to see it. I don't think I'll go with 15% myself because I'm no where near HC progression, but it would be nice to see the actual difference (if any significant).

  11. #11
    I do 7.5% because my guild has me DPS a fair bit (we have 3 tanks who all sign up very reliably, whilst our DPS can be hit and miss sometimes... And since I don't need an entirely new gear set for DPS, I tend to do the most DPS out of the 3 tanks), and I cba with making multiple gear sets beyond a regular tank set and a high stam set.

    I'll go for 15% in 5.2, most likely. When it's easier to hit and haste's value is reduced with set bonuses.

  12. #12
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    7.5% is all you need ...
    It eludes me why people still cling to this number.

    If you had 0 hit and exp rating you'd miss 22.5% of you attacks. What you are saying is, that it's totally fine to miss precisely 7.5% of you attacks but not more or less (assuming you have 7.5% to hit).

    Why 7.5%, why not 5% or 9%? Getting parried still means your attacks don't land. There's no difference between getting parried, dodged or missing! Every point of hit or exp rating increases your chance to land your attacks by the same amount until you hit the hard caps. There is no diminishing return until then. This means that 7.5% hit / 7.5% exp is equivalent to 5% hit and 10% exp.

    So there is no soft cap whatsoever. Consequently, it's questionable to try and reforge/regem to hit the 7.5% expertise as precisely as possible.

    It obviously makes little sense to shoot for 7.5% hit and 15% exp if your iLvl is 450 since you'd sacrifice to much other valuable stats.

    I believe everyone should test what they feel comfortable with and adjust their values accordingly. But forget this arbitrary number. There are hard caps and everything else is personal preference.

  13. #13
    im going for the 15%, i would not suggest it until having good gear though, i think at lower ilvl getting the haste makes bigger difference

  14. #14
    Brewmaster PoV:
    ATM 7.5%.
    Going for 15% takes too much haste while not giving much in return. I love hardcap expertise, but the energy regeneration loss hurts a lot, you need chi for all the chi spenders, sometimes you need quick energy for expel harm etc. Dropping to softcap nearly doubled my haste which is really visible during tanking.

    In 5.2 I might go for hardcap when you'll gonna need less chi and the basic hit/exp on gear will be higher.
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  15. #15
    Field Marshal
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    I'm running as 15%.
    I know I could get away with 7.5%, but I feel that monk tanks are less forgiving in play than other tanks, so I like the reliability of the 15%. A quick Keg Smash then Guard can be a life saver.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Poll is biased. There is no option for less than 7.5.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by hakhu View Post
    It eludes me why people still cling to this number.

    If you had 0 hit and exp rating you'd miss 22.5% of you attacks. What you are saying is, that it's totally fine to miss precisely 7.5% of you attacks but not more or less (assuming you have 7.5% to hit).

    Why 7.5%, why not 5% or 9%? Getting parried still means your attacks don't land. There's no difference between getting parried, dodged or missing! Every point of hit or exp rating increases your chance to land your attacks by the same amount until you hit the hard caps. There is no diminishing return until then. This means that 7.5% hit / 7.5% exp is equivalent to 5% hit and 10% exp.

    So there is no soft cap whatsoever. Consequently, it's questionable to try and reforge/regem to hit the 7.5% expertise as precisely as possible.

    It obviously makes little sense to shoot for 7.5% hit and 15% exp if your iLvl is 450 since you'd sacrifice to much other valuable stats.

    I believe everyone should test what they feel comfortable with and adjust their values accordingly. But forget this arbitrary number. There are hard caps and everything else is personal preference.
    BoK, if dodged, will not provide shuffle, one of our most potent defensive buffs. So if you are below 7,5% expertise, you are not only taking a higher risk of your resource-generating abilities missing, but also increasing the risk of not being able to apply what is essentially the cornerstone defensive buff of the spec. It's something to consider.

    We call 7.5% the soft cap because the point when your attacks no longer get dodged has always been called the soft cap. As well, there IS a difference in effectiveness per point of expertise, since if you are on a fight with tank swapping, you can be behind the boss, and therefore any expertise past 7.5% is rendered useless until you start tanking again. While behind the boss, you can continue building shuffle or switch to the tiger stance and deal damage.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2013-01-29 at 06:38 PM.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    15% with about 7k haste seems pretty cute to me

  19. #19
    You still gain shuffle if your BoK is dodged (or parried, or you miss.)

    The 7.5 number is generally taken because most fights this tier have a two tank rotation, where half the time you're not tanking and therefor have the freedom to dps from behind where you don't get parries at all, and your 7.5 expertise is enough to prevent dodges.

    I'm not a particular fan of this, since that means you still have a 7.5% chance to miss while you're actively tanking (ie the more important half of the fight), and there are still plenty of fights where you have no opportunity to attack from the rear.

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