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  1. #1

    Purge of Dalaran - Character vs. Player

    Matthew Rossi at WoW Insider wrote this amazing piece on how he felt as a player and how his character felt while doing the Operation: Shieldwall Purge of Dalaran.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/12/31/bl...ed-in-dalaran/

    He brings up amazing points, points that havAs a player, especially one who has played the Horde side of all this, I see how this was provoked. I grasp that Jaina went to the mat again and again for neutrality, that she wanted peace, that even after Theramore was destroyed she respected the Sunreaver presence and tried to keep Dalaran neutral only to see supposedly loyal members of the Kirin Tor work hand in glove with Garrosh Hellscream to steal another magical artifact. And considering what happened the last time Garrosh Hellscream got his hands on a magical artifact, I don't blame Jaina for being angry. She's already seen Theramore blown up, she's not going to wait for Hellscream to blow up Dalaran with the Divine Bell. It makes sense.

    But I still look at those terrified Sunreavers running helpless in the streets of Dalaran, and an implacable force simply teleporting them to be imprisoned. I still look at myself, swords in hand, hacking down any armed resistance and even invading shops to kill the proprietors. This war with the Horde has the very real danger of making the Alliance more like what it fights, and today I did quests that very much felt like those giving the quests had slipped over that line. But let us not pretend that I didn't very much enjoy the turnabout while I was engaged in it.
    These points been argued back and forth on these forums since 5.1 was datamined, and he's hit it on the head.

  2. #2
    When it comes down to it, innocent people were killed, making the actions over the edge. No matter what someone thinks, people are dead that didn't deserve death.

  3. #3
    The Patient Furkel's Avatar
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    Well, I think you're SUPPOSED to feel like this. This quest more than anything else has really driven home the point that this is WAR, where bad things happen to people who don't deserve it, and that sometimes there isn't a right choice, you're just forced to choose between two bad ones (killing innocent people or potentially endangering a lot more innocent people).

  4. #4
    No one can deny that the quest does exactly what it and to an extent Varian and Garrosh's characters set out to do, make people really feel the conflict and passion that is going on in the story. It's controversy seems to be working in making everyone from both sides really get engaged in the lore and get angry at one another as if players on the other side have anything to do with Blizzard's story writing.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Qprahwndfury View Post
    No one can deny that the quest does exactly what it and to an extent Varian and Garrosh's characters set out to do, make people really feel the conflict and passion that is going on in the story. It's controversy seems to be working in making everyone from both sides really get engaged in the lore and get angry at one another as if players on the other side have anything to do with Blizzard's story writing.
    Exactly, it's amazing. I've played through the Alliance side, though I've played Horde (Blood Elf/Forsaken) since Classic, it has me so conflicted. Has been a very fun patch.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    When it comes down to it, innocent people were killed, making the actions over the edge. No matter what someone thinks, people are dead that didn't deserve death.
    Horde has been slaughtering innocent Alliance citizens to steal their land since the first day of Cataclysm, why should we, as Alliance, feel bad for those who facilitate our suffering, directly or indirectly?

  7. #7
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Horde has been slaughtering innocent Alliance citizens to steal their land since the first day of Cataclysm, why should we, as Alliance, feel bad for those who facilitate our suffering, directly or indirectly?
    Give it a rest Constellation. you sound worse then I do in my pursuit of wanting to flame all Garrosh fanboys. At least I don't RP on the threads with single focus faction bias to that extreme, there are evils in war on both sides of this argument, and you'd have you be living in a cave not to notice them on both sides.

    Other alliance players feel this way about it, they feel guilty for the actions they did in dalaran, the same as when reading the book tides of war I felt bad for characters like Kinndy Sparkshine, because its a human condition to feel that way even about fictional character.

    The real question here is, if this was a real life situation, if some terrorists from a country like Iraq bombed your town and killed people, would you want to see the same thing happen to the town they came from in Iraq, that an eye for an eye should count, if innocents die in your town so to should innocents die from there country to?

    Honestly, ask yourself in a real life situation what it would make you feel.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  8. #8
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    brb asking jaina to attack undercity with me

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    brb asking jaina to attack undercity with me
    I'll go, I love toasting undead.
    End SJW
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    I fucking hate this LGBT and gender equality shit invading video games.

  10. #10
    good luck, the 2 of you. you'll need it. I really hope jaina takes a lot of humans there, new recruits are always appreciated
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  11. #11
    I actually loved the purge of dalaran. Im tired of alliance doing the "right thing". I found great enjoyment of removing the horde from that city. Its the first time I felt proud to be part of the alliance.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Balo View Post
    I actually loved the purge of dalaran. Im tired of alliance doing the "right thing". I found great enjoyment of removing the horde from that city. Its the first time I felt proud to be part of the alliance.
    if you only feel proud of being alliance when the alliance behaves like the horde, than maybe you should reconsider your faction.

    even varian disaproved of jaina's actions. the varian. the angry varian. the wolf-man varian from hell.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Horde has been slaughtering innocent Alliance citizens to steal their land since the first day of Cataclysm, why should we, as Alliance, feel bad for those who facilitate our suffering, directly or indirectly?
    And yet, it was Alliance who brought all of this to Azeroth. The Night Elves' reckless use of magic bringing the Legion. Medivh opening the dark portal. Arthas going genocidal on his own citizens then becoming the Lich King. Kel'Thuzad summoning Archimmond.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Starscreamer's Avatar
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    I play horde as my main and have an alliance alt, just today i finally finished the alliance version of the 5.1 events and I'm wondering how the hell Jaina can get mad at the Sunreavers when she broke her neutrality first. On the Alliance's side right before the Purge of Dalaran they have to follow a magic trail to the portal in Darnassus to find out who it was and during that Jaina says something along the lines of "This is impossible! I rooted out every 2 bit thief that has tried to sneak into the city".

    So she gets involved with the Alliance to help keep the bell hidden and then blows her stack when she finds out Aethas Sunreaver played a part in the theft of it? I'm calling BS.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Balo View Post
    I actually loved the purge of dalaran. Im tired of alliance doing the "right thing". I found great enjoyment of removing the horde from that city. Its the first time I felt proud to be part of the alliance.
    If you find pride in doing what you are explicitly conceding is the "wrong thing", that's very unfortunate for you. The incident, though, really undermines the entire idealistic premise on which the Alliance has ever managed to stay committed to the war in the first place. Would Jaina be abashed to know that, again, she is acting like Garrosh? First, when she tried to destroy Orgrimmar, but now, with quieting her suspicions about her residents and citizens through force and no proof? Summary imprisonment, execution, or exile for Sunreavers... not meaningfully different from Garrosh's gestapo running around Durotar and Orgrimmar killing anyone deemed disloyal.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Other alliance players feel this way about it, they feel guilty for the actions they did in dalaran, the same as when reading the book tides of war I felt bad for characters like Kinndy Sparkshine, because its a human condition to feel that way even about fictional character.

    The real question here is, if this was a real life situation, if some terrorists from a country like Iraq bombed your town and killed people, would you want to see the same thing happen to the town they came from in Iraq, that an eye for an eye should count, if innocents die in your town so to should innocents die from there country to?

    Honestly, ask yourself in a real life situation what it would make you feel.
    So you feel that the best way to counter terrorism is with more terrorism? You would be in a countless cycle of bloodshed until it all erupts with global extinction.

    Do I think just deserves are in play? Absolutely, but to justify murdering innocents is to murder more is just heinous and evil. Those people at play that committed the crimes definitely deserve to suffer, but why more innocents?

  17. #17
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    main goal

    imprison all sun reavers to determine who was doing what

    any who put up resistance were to die as traitors


    blame the ones who resisted for why the sunreavers are no longer welcome and now dalaran is in the firm hands of the alliance

    *pees on a tree near the horde inn*

    its ours

    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Praise REGGIE! MY BODY IS READY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  18. #18
    theres quite a difference between guarding a highly volatile magical artifact from any twobit thief that wants to steal it and aiding a tyrant to steal yet another weapon of mass destruction. Jaina helped the alliance guard against any threat to the bell (horde wouldnt be the only peeps after the bell). Sunreavers helped the horde steal it knowing it was to be used against the alliance. I think what pissed jaina off more was the fact that the portal led right back to dalaran, If your going to risk your neutrality to help a mass murderer you dont leave a trail straight back to your home!

    And before i get any hate i play both sides and garrosh is most definately a mass murderer. Not even content with blowing up theramore hes starting on the trolls. If it wasnt for thrall the trolls would be in dire straights

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Gum's Avatar
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    I laughed while killing them bloodelfs - traitorous dogs. War is war, this is like people would have done it in old times, either submit, gtfo or die. Seems like people didnt understand that while race doesnt mean alot, it means enough for you to make a stand, if you make the wrong one, you die. Nothing wrong with dieing for ones believes. Just have to remember whoms the boss when deciding the beliefs.

    I did hurt a bit when later revealed that varian was indeed talkign with the Bloodelfs about them rejoining the alliance. But i knew it would never happend cus of ingame lore (how cool and awesome wouldnt it be if they truly did? :O) So Meh, whatever, die horde scum. I have waited SO long for that. So much fustration was released during that purge. Felt good bro.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphemus View Post
    So you feel that the best way to counter terrorism is with more terrorism? You would be in a countless cycle of bloodshed until it all erupts with global extinction.

    Do I think just deserves are in play? Absolutely, but to justify murdering innocents is to murder more is just heinous and evil. Those people at play that committed the crimes definitely deserve to suffer, but why more innocents?
    You might want to give what Trassk wrote another read there bud.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Xothic - Prot Paladin - Expired at the end of 5.1, returned start of 5.4, left again. Returned again, left again, returned again. You know how it is.

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