View Poll Results: Would you like Vanilla-like 5 mans back?

Voters
316. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes the longer the better

    90 28.48%
  • Yes but not exactly as long

    86 27.22%
  • No I wouldn't have time anyway

    108 34.18%
  • NO I feel the current dungeons are too long already

    32 10.13%
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  1. #141
    People don't really want long, challenging dungeons. They just want loot. The only thing vanilla-like 5-mans would accomplish is that people would not run them. Then, they would cry about how long it took to get gear.

    Nostalgia is strong, but the playerbase values "how to get loot fast" far over nostalgia.

  2. #142
    they were way too long but difficulty wise, CC and shit, fuck yeah.

    (i really enjoyed first week of revamped ZA/ZG, was a bit kinda, sorta like that)

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    People don't really want long, challenging dungeons. They just want loot. The only thing vanilla-like 5-mans would accomplish is that people would not run them. Then, they would cry about how long it took to get gear.

    Nostalgia is strong, but the playerbase values "how to get loot fast" far over nostalgia.
    Agreed =[. Its only about the gear. Gear is all its about. Only gear matters. Gear please.

    Its so very sad.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Agreed =[. Its only about the gear. Gear is all its about. Only gear matters. Gear please.

    Its so very sad.
    this is because blizzard trained the monkeys that way, just untrain them.

  5. #145
    No thanks ..... still have nightmares of those BRD runs ......

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    this is because blizzard trained the monkeys that way, just untrain them.
    Blizzard didn't train them. The playerbase cried for it, and Blizzard complied. WoW shifted in the direction determined from the playerbase - not the other way around.

  7. #147
    Vanilla this, vanilla that.
    Vanilla is a shit flavour!

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Blizzard didn't train them. The playerbase cried for it, and Blizzard complied. WoW shifted in the direction determined from the playerbase - not the other way around.
    whatever. they shouldn't have listened to all that shit, because it simply went to far with the fucking convenience and easy loot nonsense.

    players say jump, blizzard fucking jumps.

  9. #149
    they're simply incompatible with LFD and with badges/VPs/whatever obtained from full completion. if you don't have to run it with pugs and dont receive your reward only with full completion, then it could be doable.

  10. #150
    You're not thinking like a business.

    As a business Blizzard typically spends a vast majority of it's development time on Raids. This includes all the environment, art, weapons, armor, bosses, mechanics.

    Historically blizzard never pushed players into these environments. Thus, 30-45% of the population was making use of their system. Their current model is much smarter. They spend less time on the 5 mans, as they know most people either want to get better items, or they just want to horse around. So, by pushing people from Dungeons that are easy into LFR, you've now gotten more investment from your time spent. Time Costs are a huge thing in game development. If you devote Jake to implement a new mechanic for this boss, and he quotes a 3 work day time spent, and then after everything is said and done your have a total of 180 work days across the entire design team, you better hope that that time spent can hold people over for at least 40% of that, if not longer.

    Long dungeons will fill a niche. I'd say about 25% on the generous averages would be willing to run those enough times to get the time cost back of creating them.

    They are a business, and marketing to a niche can lose them money.
    Last edited by tehdef; 2013-01-29 at 08:22 PM.

  11. #151
    They should definitely add a couple of them at least. They wouldn't have to be hard but rather really huge epic 5mans.

  12. #152
    While i love Vanilla dungeons, and even would love to have them back, one has to understand that just reintroducing dungeons like that is not gonna do it. Those dungeons would not fit in todays WoW. Everything else would have to change, too, in order to make them work. And i mean everything. The entire pace of the game would need to be drastically lowered (the pace of getting rewards too, of course), accessible raiding would need to go away, Valor/Honor would need to go and so on.

    I would be all for it, but Blizzard ain't gonna do it.

    A long time ago, WoW made the jump from play to work. And people ain't gonna want to work longer for their paycheck.

    Play necessitates autonomy. Too many, too predictable rewards curb autonomy. That is why the old dungeons did not work inspite of bad rewards (only drops, no guaranted rewards a la valor/honor, often badly itemised gear, coupled with a deterent in form of a big time investment), but because of.

  13. #153
    Seriously? No one's run the new BRD?

  14. #154
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Oh please, you expect old game models where hard work and dedication yielded reward to appeal to the self-entitled, "why should I work to see content I pay for", idiots?

    The vanilla game model is long gone. People are lazy and want instant gratification, and they can't stand the thought of anyone who puts more time and effort and intelligence into something getting more than what that person paid for. The modern game model is a hopelessly self-defeating one that cheapens every achievement to the point where it is not worth aiming for and there is nothing to aspire to. Everything you could ever want is so easily attainable, that people are spoiled for choice.

    And please, don't talk to me about "heroic" modes, you'll just depress me even more.

    Long story short, I remember UBRS and Strat runs, and the average modern day WoW player wouldn't last a second in it - and they wouldn't want to, and that is their loss. Even though they will spout the phrase "rose-tinted glasses" until you get a headache from their continuous lack of understanding.
    "The truth, my goal."

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    People are lazy and want instant gratification, and they can't stand the thought of anyone who puts more time and effort and intelligence into something getting more than what that person paid for. The modern game model is a hopelessly self-defeating one that cheapens every achievement to the point where it is not worth aiming for and there is nothing to aspire to. Everything you could ever want is so easily attainable, that people are spoiled for choice.
    So you love the MoP dailies then?

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    Seriously? No one's run the new BRD?
    I have. It was a bit odd. The very first "section" is like a few pulls and a boss I think. No one wants to even keep going, as its "a waste."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuvok View Post
    Oh please, you expect old game models where hard work and dedication yielded reward to appeal to the self-entitled, "why should I work to see content I pay for", idiots?

    The vanilla game model is long gone. People are lazy and want instant gratification, and they can't stand the thought of anyone who puts more time and effort and intelligence into something getting more than what that person paid for. The modern game model is a hopelessly self-defeating one that cheapens every achievement to the point where it is not worth aiming for and there is nothing to aspire to. Everything you could ever want is so easily attainable, that people are spoiled for choice.

    And please, don't talk to me about "heroic" modes, you'll just depress me even more.

    Long story short, I remember UBRS and Strat runs, and the average modern day WoW player wouldn't last a second in it - and they wouldn't want to, and that is their loss. Even though they will spout the phrase "rose-tinted glasses" until you get a headache from their continuous lack of understanding.
    Holy shit, you don't understand how much I agree.



    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    So you love the MoP dailies then?
    I'm totally fine with them. I was actually excited to do the 5.1 dailies. I just ran them with friends quickly, or if they weren't available, pugged them, in a "social" MMO, imagine that!.
    Last edited by Lemonpartyfan; 2013-01-29 at 08:36 PM.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  17. #157
    No thanks. LBRS, UBRS, BRD was "fun" when I had absolutely nothing at all better to do but the time investment vs. reward was ridiculous in comparison to nowadays. You would spend 3 hours in UBRS, longer in LBRS because less people did it. Not to mention navigating LBRS and BRD was ridiculous if everyone wasn't in agreement as to which way to go, you'd be lucky to even hit all the bosses, or even reach the end boss. If you got a tank or healer or just some troll DPS that no idea what they were doing the dungeons were an absolute nightmare.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I have. It was a bit odd. The very first "section" is like a few pulls and a boss I think. No one wants to even keep going, as its "a waste."
    The problem is that there's two dungeons LFD can put you into in BRD. And unless you know what the level requirements are (and check, and even then it may not be obvious), you don't know what dungeon you're in. Sometimes people assume they're in the City dungeon, kill all the bosses and "free" Moira, and then realize they didn't get the Bag. So they have to go back down to the pits. Or they kill the bosses in the pits, fingers crossed that they got that section, and more than half the time they're disappointed.

    That said, it's a great dungeon to level in because there are so many bosses. But the confusion in LFD makes it run twice as long as it has, even if you do end up shortcutting some of it.

  19. #159
    Honestly? They'd end up being rushed straight to endboss, like Throne of the Tides was, always skipping bosses that you could skip. I'd love an 5man instance with 12 bosses, so farming gear and JP would be pretty efficient but then you would run into players seeing this huge dungeon pop, then immediately leave. Current LFD content model is like this - press queue, do a run in 5-15 min, done. This is why LFR is split into so many wings. ToT will have 12 bosses, split into 4x3 LFR parts. Now imagine single LFR queue for all 12 bosses. You have to reserve pretty much 3-4 hours to clear all of this, even on LFR braindead difficulty.

  20. #160
    Stood in the Fire
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    I liked them being non-linear and some having other little side quests in them

    The length was abysmal though
    Man, I've got bags under my eyes... BAGS OF MONEY!
    See ya later, peasants.

    Praise The Sun!

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