Page 17 of 18 FirstFirst ...
7
15
16
17
18
LastLast
  1. #321
    Lol symbio tranquility... are you joking...? Dude this heals for like 100k for a 8sec channel, it's so bad... Sorry but Im just gona completely dismiss anything from this point forward...

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    No. HoF does not have 4 multiDoT bosses.

    V&T and Warmaster those are typical multiDoT fights. Or Tsulong. Actually Tsulong isn't either, it has quite some AoE too, and burst isn't bad either. Even Elegon has burst and AoE. Only reason we rock on Elegon is ToF (and cascade).

    And even on multiDoT, the shadow priest is currently the worst for this role: boomkin, affli lock, and mage do better.

    HoF 4 multiDoT? No way. 1!! And that's the only boss we don't suck at, the other 5 we sim LAST or last + 1. 1st 2 bosses are pure single target (with movement). 3rd is multiDoT yes, but a shitload of movement and burst. 4th is AoE fest, not multiDoT at all, we're awesome here: for mass dispel, woohoo. 2nd phase is single target and movement. 5th boss is the multiDoT fight. Now the point here is: MultiDoT != multiple targets! If they are close together it is cleave. Queen for example is cleave AoE, not multiDoT, and furthermore is single target.

    As for Vaults. It is entry raid, and only one we're not blowing out of proportion on the lower end of the spectrum. Once your spriest is past Vaults he will suck if he plays with players who are of same quality. There is no way the spriest will do more damage than an equally skilled warlock. The only reason to bring them is to have them as disc (10m esp), or just for the mass dispel. Or to gear them up for the mass dispel fights, lol.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 12:43 PM ----------

    (I didn't mention off healing hereunder. Yep, that's something shadow is good at. Not sure how well compared to other classes. I fully admit it isn't something I regularly looked at (but did help out with when I could). It is a utility, but once again I ask you how fun is it being a buffbot or mana battery or off healer while your output is taxed due to being hybrid.)

    I'm talking about PvE here. What diversity, what unique thing does spriest bring to raid? A glyphed mass dispel which is useful for 2-3 fights in this tier. And that's it. The reason being, shadow don't have mana issues like the healer priests, and they suck at output anyway. That's the only unique utility shadow brings right now. Hymn of Hope is minor, dispersion is minor (and almost every class can soak), and Void Shift can also function as a CD but these are all minor and besides the point of your damage being plain terrible. How fun is it when your output sucks? Ask the priests who played shadow in TBC and WotLK and MoP. The hybrid tax is back! 3.5 out of 5 of the 3-role classes are performing downright bad on their DPS spec (retri, ele, shadow, boomkin bottom; windwalk, enhance, feral are OK). How fun is it when you're only able to pass the warlock on the meters when you play everything perfect and he was terrible? Single target movement? Bad. Cleave? Bad. Burst? Bad. AoE? Bad. All bad. Oh wait, there's one, which is quite rare after MSV: MultiDoT? Good, but worst of the multiDoTers. Its all poppycocks, and Blizzard should've buffed us long before 5.1 but instead mr Crab wanted to fix the mage's specs and didn't dare to touch shadow PvP mid-season. I can see his reasoning very well here: disc good PvE, bad PvP, shadow good PvP, bad PvE, holy meh. There's choice here for a priest player. My choice became: not playing. What pisses me off further is mr Crab's quotes of him "knowing very well about the output classes and specs do" and then being "genuinely surprised shadow needs a buff in 5.2". No ****head, we needed a buff in october 2012, not spring 2013 or whenever 5.2 comes out.
    God damn it, that's about right. And I mostly thought there's something wrong with me.

    I just hate it when PVP affects PVE to this horrible extent.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsified View Post
    For a hybrid class? How about boomkin totally owning in fireland..?
    Oh and can you offer a raid portal....? Do you offer so much self heal that healers just go "meh its a lock, no need to heal"...(jk, but you see my point)
    And utility is by no mean a reason to be rock bottom on single target fights... FYI hybrid tax is supposed to be gone since tlk, only one expansion had it(bc) and it was well understood by every one why(mana battery ftw). If it actually was 5% damage I wouldn't give a crap but its not a minority its the overwhelming majority. As you said the only thing we bring in a raid is HPS utility, which to be fair is the worst utility in game, healing cool-downs or damage reduction cool-downs are much better(VE is utter shit horse in 25m) or raid movements bonuses(locks portal, druid's shout). Also, if what you said was true about our healing utility, then most guilds would bring 2 SP instead of a healer, yet I have serious doubt that anyone did that. You are better off taking a healer and a real damage dealer. You're bitching about what we were, I don't give a crap what happened 5 years ago, no class is like what they were back then.
    Wow is homogenized, It means hybrid tax is gone. The only utility we have is MD, and dispersion for soaking mechanics. Our healing utility is only good with Divine star, and that represents the talent with which we do the least dps, but we have to take it some times(when we can't halo).
    And finally the biggest utility any dps can bring is dps. You bring a tank for tanking, a healer for healing and a dps for dps. And I am only bitching about our single target damage, which MB and DP are near 40% of it. And seeing they nerfed the dot part of DP, yeah i can bitch about it, it was totally uncalled for. I honestly don't see the point of it. And most people here agreed that SP design is flawed, it was said that SP would suck in t14, it was true in single target, but ToF managed to save us on several encounters. Mind sear is good too. But the fact is, we currently got one of the worst single target dps in game, and we can't really switch specs.

    And lastly, GC might be aware, but by no means has he said once that our damage was too low. He's been dodging it for a while now. So yes, we might assume that they know, but they have yet to share anything with us, the one who pays.
    some good arguements, anyhow...
    only good healing utility divine star? try learning to position yourself 25 yards away from your group hitting your groupmembers with halo for around 280k+ crit heal...and yeah, in a good raiding group a wellplayin shadow keeps his halo to use as a healing mechanism if needed !!!! anyhow.. that wasnt the point of my post... the statement is and stays... shadow isnt that bad, looking at the damage and the offhealing utility we are providing (ofc some cant figure out to use them right but thats another topic). except you really are that naive comparing us to op classes like warlock and mages, as everyone acknowledged we are lacking dps on a single target... my criticism lies within... almost all the proposed dps fixes didnt calculate the increased healing factor within, not just for us (Vampiric touch if the suggestion was increasing shadowform damage to 30%) but also that damage increase from dots, mind flay, etc., would strongly benefit vampiric embrace... now you can argue for a decrease of the healing from those spells... have fun in pvp forum then... summa summarum, people are getting to fast upset, even though GC just recently anounced they havent looked at shadows pve dmg right now and that they definitely will do it...

  4. #324
    Dude this heals for like 100k for a 8sec channel


    the last time i channeled it, tranq healed for 578689,810... thats not that bad for an offhealing cd

    doesnt matter, thinking about your comment though you are thinking shadow is bad in dmg + fuck the offheal it is not worth mentioning it?
    Last edited by flens; 2013-02-09 at 07:40 AM.

  5. #325
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Confirmed. Sending supplies.
    Posts
    396
    Quote Originally Posted by flens View Post
    Dude this heals for like 100k for a 8sec channel


    the last time i channeled it, tranq healed for 578689,810... thats not that bad for an offhealing cd
    Not really worth wasting Symbiosis on Shadow though; we can do that kind of output with Flash Heal.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by flens View Post
    Dude this heals for like 100k for a 8sec channel


    the last time i channeled it, tranq healed for 578689,810... thats not that bad for an offhealing cd

    doesnt matter, thinking about your comment though you are thinking shadow is bad in dmg + fuck the offheal it is not worth mentioning it?
    You understand that isn't even a shadow ability right? Saying shadow is OP because a druid can give them a healing cooldown is stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karragon View Post
    I'd like WoW to be a single player game

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by espoire View Post
    Not really worth wasting Symbiosis on Shadow though; we can do that kind of output with Flash Heal.
    ofc thats true, on the other hand ur channeling a spell, splitting itslef evenly on the party members instead of hitting 8 times flash heal which would take about 12 secs without procs and drain u for mana... well to end it here we are getting of topic... shadow needs a single target buff, combined with a multidot + offheal nerf, i dare you find the right solution which fits pvp aswell... neither of the posts in this thread provided that.. and dont get me wrong.. makin our class op? ofc i´d like it just trying to look at it in a neutral way

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 08:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by blargh312 View Post
    You understand that isn't even a shadow ability right? Saying shadow is OP because a druid can give them a healing cooldown is stupid.
    didnt say that thx
    Last edited by flens; 2013-02-09 at 07:54 AM.

  8. #328
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Confirmed. Sending supplies.
    Posts
    396
    Quote Originally Posted by flens View Post
    ofc thats true, on the other hand ur channeling a spell, splitting itslef evenly on the party...
    Oh, true. The mana savings, smart-heal, and not stripping Shadowform are all advantages. I'm just saying the HPS is nothing special at all. Wheras, say, giving the warlock Rejuvenation for Tsulong chops ~5M off the fight.

  9. #329
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    3,764
    Quote Originally Posted by flens View Post
    i´d like to post, not able to though, talking bout the first weeks of content release... links all expired on WoL... looking at the logs now, ofc healers are outgeared u will not find a log confirming my personal experience... anyhow, WoL rank 1 still manages to pull 20k hps even though he does not keep pom on cd and doesnt use symbiosis tranq... nothing more to add...
    Even when trying to maximize healing at the expense of DPS, short of spamming Flash Heal (so, ProM on cooldown, VE on Weakened Leg Aura debuff for 200% healing, divine star, pw: shields on cooldown), you do about 22-25k HPS on Garalon. 40k is a number you clearly made up (which is fine, just don't try to pretend the logs of it magically disappeared).

    Now, on Tsulong it IS possible to do 40-50k HPS as Shadow - but that's because we get a 500% healing buff and spam 1 million HP flash heals frequently throughout the fight with 100% efficacy. It's possible on any class with a healing button (including mages with Symbosis Healing Touch).
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Falsified View Post
    And lastly, GC might be aware, but by no means has he said once that our damage was too low. He's been dodging it for a while now. So yes, we might assume that they know, but they have yet to share anything with us, the one who pays.
    He did. I asked him on the PTR thread when they would start doing PvE adjustments and he said "Soon". Then he posted later that Spriests are going to be buffed. Initial thoughts on buffing MB by 20% more damage. We are trying to convince him there that MB is not the right spell to buff, as MT is not where our problem relies, but ST, especially when there is movement.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by andre1204 View Post
    He did. I asked him on the PTR thread when they would start doing PvE adjustments and he said "Soon". Then he posted later that Spriests are going to be buffed. Initial thoughts on buffing MB by 20% more damage. We are trying to convince him there that MB is not the right spell to buff, as MT is not where our problem relies, but ST, especially when there is movement.
    Instead of a fix for spriest damage every patch, somebody should ask why did they remove the decreade of the CD of Mindblast with more haste. This would simply fix all our scaling issues, especially with haste. It works for Paladins very good, but why does spriest can never increase their main ressource gained with more haste: Leather-classes get more energy, DKs get more runes, warriors get more rage and palas get a shorter CD on all their abilities with more haste, but we never get more shadow orbs, and it is not reasonable why not.

    So we need to beg in for fixing our damage in EVERY SINGLE PATCH.

    And for movement: why not a glyph that remove the snare of Mind Flay, but let us cast it on movement. I don't know why blizzard want that caster need to stand still for doing things (removing scorch for mages for example), especially when melees and hunters can use abilities while they move, but we are not allowed to do so.
    Last edited by Velerios; 2013-02-09 at 06:34 PM.

  12. #332
    he was like "we'll buff MB by 20% i know you lost damage on the move but hey it's better than MF"

    good luck trying to convince him to do pretty much anything. the guy is unnecessarily stubborn.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Crudelitas View Post
    he was like "we'll buff MB by 20% i know you lost damage on the move but hey it's better than MF"

    good luck trying to convince him to do pretty much anything. the guy is unnecessarily stubborn.
    That's so true.... *sigh*

    Instead of fixing our problems he gives us again a bandaid. It is more like: We know you have scaling problems, we know you have movement problems especially in PvE, but we need to concentrate on rogues and paladin seals more than on you.

    And especially his talk about scaling: Ghostie i don't know if you read it or not; but if we don't scale, why should we even get new items?
    If a warlock gains (for example) 2000dps more with an item, we only 1000dps, why not giving all items the warlock first, because we don't scale as good as the warlock. Even if we do theoretically the same damage on the same ilvl; for the raid it is more important to get 2000dps more than 1000 from the priest. And does we really need to beg every patch.

  14. #334
    I was already waiting for band-aids. I don't think they will mess with scaling and rotations mid-expansion (I know they can and they do sometimes, but they try to avoid it). If they do, great, but we can't wait for them to do this. Next expansion beta we'll have a lot to talk about. Let's just hope our feedback makes more difference than it did on MoP beta.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacemaker65 View Post
    Why does everyone have to be burst? The diversity is waning.
    Every class doesn't, but the ones that don't should have competitive sustained DPS... which they don't. You're behind the FotM from the get-go, and it only gets worse during CD phases.

  16. #336
    he doesn't believe that we have a scaling issue. and even if he does, he says that "he won't do anything until it's like 10% damage difference"
    he ignores sims, he ignores theorycrafting, he ignores the posts that start with the words mage, lock, affliction, arcane all together.

    we NEED to have mid expansion class changes or it'll be less and less damage combined with tons of bandaids.

  17. #337
    GC gives us a sneak preview before all the shadow ajustments are out to make the community happy. Showing shadow getting single target buff that makes scaling much better(hard hitting spell gets more from crit and makes di worth more/mastery). And all people do is complain that it isn't enough, even tho it isn't all the changes. He's never going to make you people happy ever, ever.

    Stream: twitch.tv/DryeLuLZ
    Twitter: @Dryelulz

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    GC gives us a sneak preview before all the shadow ajustments are out to make the community happy. Showing shadow getting single target buff that makes scaling much better(hard hitting spell gets more from crit and makes di worth more/mastery). And all people do is complain that it isn't enough, even tho it isn't all the changes. He's never going to make you people happy ever, ever.
    When Greg get's his hand out of your pants, maybe you could read over the reasons why this is considered a band-aid fix. Then maybe you could go over the history of Blizzard's disregard of ptr feedback, and consider why spriests feel they need to be extremely vocal in order to get their class fixed.

  19. #339
    here's the answer i got from him for my tweet on mb scaling with haste being better:

    "@sugarshootin Will your relative DPS drop 10% over the course of a tier because of haste scaling? If not, why does it matter?"

  20. #340
    Bloodsail Admiral Alanar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Close to you..
    Posts
    1,206
    Quote Originally Posted by Crudelitas View Post
    here's the answer i got from him for my tweet on mb scaling with haste being better:

    "@sugarshootin Will your relative DPS drop 10% over the course of a tier because of haste scaling? If not, why does it matter?"
    Also he finnaly anwserd this On the PTR forum:"Your next mind flay can be channeled while moving after a successful, non-instant cast mind blast" Thoughts?

    ghostcrawler: I would get rid of every cast while moving if I could. It would be better for the game overall.

    so sadly we wont be any better in the near future in terms of mobility it seems.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •