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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Speaking of, will this make mastery the go-to stat in PvE?
    Still too early to tell as there are a lot of factors at play:

    -DP changes
    -T15 bonuses being dependent on Crit much more than Mastery
    -If the Legendary Meta Gem's proc uptime is high enough, a mixup of Haste Breakpoints to shoot for
    -Finalization of how Mind Flay (Insanity) works; MFI's viability overall vs. other talents in fight types

    Personally, I'm holding off on doing a ton of in-depth analysis until later PTR builds.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Alidie View Post
    There are no "on use" trinkets in this tier,
    Are you sure? Or did you just look through raid boss loot and go "No on use trinkets this tier".

    Static-Caster's Medallion
    Blossom of Pure Snow

    Yes, they do require Reputation, but the fact is they are there so the excuse of "No on use trinket this tier" isn't valid as there are two. While the on use Intellect would be better than the crit, the crit is still an option.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacemaker65 View Post
    Why does everyone have to be burst? The diversity is waning.
    It's more like, certain bosses have burn phases, where you need a dps cd, or a huge burst to keep up. we didn't have a cd, but could somehow compensate it with burst (halo + dpx3 + mb while fiend or bender is rubbing on it, since their damage is not considered "hitting")

    now we're losing the burst, and the guy just has the nerves to tell us that we don't need any because our talents are bursty already. the fact he ignores is that it's either a proc, does shitty damage, or completely useless. and we still don't have a cd.

    i can see your concerns about diversity, but leaving a spec broken, or breaking it even further doesn't help the diversity in the long run. it will be one less spec in the game because people can take bullshit only up to some point.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    Still too early to tell as there are a lot of factors at play:

    -DP changes
    -T15 bonuses being dependent on Crit much more than Mastery
    -If the Legendary Meta Gem's proc uptime is high enough, a mixup of Haste Breakpoints to shoot for
    -Finalization of how Mind Flay (Insanity) works; MFI's viability overall vs. other talents in fight types

    Personally, I'm holding off on doing a ton of in-depth analysis until later PTR builds.

    Fair point, have they said anything about how they intend to change insanity? Or just that it's "being considered"?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Are you sure? Or did you just look through raid boss loot and go "No on use trinkets this tier".

    Static-Caster's Medallion
    Blossom of Pure Snow

    Yes, they do require Reputation, but the fact is they are there so the excuse of "No on use trinket this tier" isn't valid as there are two. While the on use Intellect would be better than the crit, the crit is still an option.
    No on-use trinkets worth taking over their competitors*

    DMC/the 2 raid trinkets are vastly better than those two, so they may get overlooked.
    Last edited by Regen; 2013-01-29 at 04:43 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    No on-use trinkets worth taking over their competitors*

    DMC/the 2 raid trinkets are vastly better than those two, so they may get overlooked.
    exactly what i meant, perhaps should've been clearer in my post.

    And like someone else said, SF does more dmg than mindbender, that's sad, and that means mindbender definitely isn't an "on demand dps cd for some burn phases", since mindbender would only do more dmg than SF on the long run, aka not during a burn phase.

    i'm so desperate for some dps cooldown, the only reason to bring a spriest on a single target fight or a fight that requires burn, over another dps, is mana hymn and off heals. I feel so broken!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Fair point, have they said anything about how they intend to change insanity? Or just that it's "being considered"?
    MFI isn't benefiting from Mastery at all right now, but it isn't known if this is intentional or not. That in and of itself is huge for determining how viable MFI is in fights other than those like Patchwerk and, if so, how it will change gearing priorities. I'm expecting a PTR build before CoB Thursday where more changes/tweaks will be included (no inside info, just the way of things and it has been a while since the last PTR).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerofpope View Post
    The burst from DP is leaving us soon, and they seem to think a talent that removes all of our DOTS is the solution.
    Eh? FDCL doesn't remove dots, in fact it specifically stops MS removing dots.

    No wonder you think priests are bad...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    Eh? FDCL doesn't remove dots, in fact it specifically stops MS removing dots.

    No wonder you think priests are bad...
    Wow. If you're gonna act like you know what you're talking about, then please do so, or at least don't question my intelligence. Insanity? Removes dots.

  9. #29
    just sw: p currently, and it's being redesigned atm = when you have 3 dots, MF does double damage with a shiny new spell animation.
    Last edited by Crudelitas; 2013-01-29 at 06:07 PM. Reason: smileys grr

  10. #30
    hilarious how he calls mindbender a dps cooldown when it does less per use than shadowfiend.

    also hilarious at the bads calling DP a 'dps cooldown'. if you delay DP by more than ~6 seconds (which is standard practice, to wait for int procs to come online) you lose significant DPS due to mindblast's cooldown and wasted orbs.

    look at the first spike here http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7o...?s=4438&e=4946 and tell me that shadow's 'cooldown' is fine. we max out at roughly 66% of all other dps classes burst since we have no true cooldown to stack with prepot. it's further exacerbated by bloodlust (which we didn't use on pull), as we really do not scale well with haste. even with it as our best stat, we only stack it for the 8085 breakpoint, and after that we get ~20% less out of haste than other casters. the only way shadow performs well is with 50%+ uptime on TOF and/or half the raid dying in execute range.

    hopefully insanity can help to bring things closer together, as insanity would scale extremely well with haste and mastery. i'm also hoping that taking the cap off of apparitions will help somewhat. but, still, without a true personal dps cooldown the mini bloodlusts from the 5.2 meta gem will shit all over shadow when compared to other classes cooldown stacking (especially with mages using altertime on the proc).
    Last edited by snaxattax; 2013-01-29 at 06:13 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    hilarious how he calls mindbender a dps cooldown when it does less per use than shadowfiend.

    also hilarious at the bads calling DP a 'dps cooldown'. if you delay DP by more than ~6 seconds (which is standard practice, to wait for int procs to come online) you lose significant DPS due to mindblast's cooldown and wasted orbs.

    look at the first spike here http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7o...?s=4438&e=4946 and tell me that shadow's 'cooldown' is fine. we max out at roughly 66% of all other dps classes burst since we have no true cooldown to stack with prepot. it's further exacerbated by bloodlust (which we didn't use on pull), as we really do not scale well with haste. even with it as our best stat, we only stack it for the 8085 breakpoint, and after that we get ~20% less out of haste than other casters. the only way shadow performs well is with 50%+ uptime on TOF and/or half the raid dying in execute range.

    hopefully insanity can help to bring things closer together, as insanity would scale extremely well with haste and mastery. i'm also hoping that taking the cap off of apparitions will help somewhat. but, still, without a true personal dps cooldown the mini bloodlusts from the 5.2 meta gem will shit all over shadow when compared to other classes cooldown stacking (especially with mages using altertime on the proc).
    DP change seems it'd favor mastery, but insanity would favor haste... dilemma.

  12. #32
    Not every class needs an Execute ability. SV hunters don't have one (no, Rapid Fire isn't an execute). And if they did give spriests one they'd need to balance overall dps so that they didn't become OP.

    Now, if you mean a DPS CD that you can use rotationally vs just when the boss is below x% health... they could do that. But why does every class need something like that (and isn't DP with 3 orbs basically that anyway?)

  13. #33
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    we just need darkanchangel back... thats it...

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    But why does every class need something like that (and isn't DP with 3 orbs basically that anyway?)
    Every class except priest have it, so why not priest too? And no, for the love of god, DP is not a DPS CD. FFS, just think of DP as a regular dot.
    And we're not talking about any execute (aka SW, drain soul, execute, kill shot) but a DPS CD a la Ascendance, Dark Soul, incarnation, arcane power..

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alidie View Post
    Every class except priest have it, so why not priest too? And no, for the love of god, DP is not a DPS CD. FFS, just think of DP as a regular dot.
    And we're not talking about any execute (aka SW, drain soul, execute, kill shot) but a DPS CD a la Ascendance, Dark Soul, incarnation, arcane power..
    Honestly they probably think PI is a CD they offered us we aren't using. Too bad it's complete crap.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerofpope View Post
    Honestly they probably think PI is a CD they offered us we aren't using. Too bad it's complete crap.
    Nah if they concidered PI to be a dps CD i'm sure he'd mention it in his tweet. "but but you get 20% spell cast speed if u pick PI???" /facepalm one of my guildies tried to convince me that PI was a bloody awesome DPS CD and it was our fault if we complain about not having a DPS CD if we didn't choose that talent, i wanted to slap his face so hard.

    come on blizzard, give us something awesome and baseline. just gief wings back. or even make our SA work like wild imps with optional glyph for on demand burst, altho have them bloody run to the target not walk lol?

  17. #37
    I see no point comparing the whole toolkit of a pure dps class with the toolkit of a hybrid dps. Priests have several cooldowns, but they are not all for damaging purposes. Some classes are more bursty than others, and some classes need some kind of ramp up time before doing serious damage. I personally like variety. However i do believe shadow priests do need one or two more extra buttons to press, not for burst purposes per se, but for the whole rotation since it seems "empty" to me.
    I kinda liked the tier bonus from DS with the shadowfiend getting 3 orbs per hit, or even dark archangel without goint that much far.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by manthrax View Post
    I see no point comparing the whole toolkit of a pure dps class with the toolkit of a hybrid dps. Priests have several cooldowns, but they are not all for damaging purposes. Some classes are more bursty than others, and some classes need some kind of ramp up time before doing serious damage. I personally like variety. However i do believe shadow priests do need one or two more extra buttons to press, not for burst purposes per se, but for the whole rotation since it seems "empty" to me.
    I kinda liked the tier bonus from DS with the shadowfiend getting 3 orbs per hit, or even dark archangel without goint that much far.
    Firelands and Ulduar offered some of the best set bonus for Tier gear we'll probably ever see.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by manthrax View Post
    I see no point comparing the whole toolkit of a pure dps class with the toolkit of a hybrid dps. Priests have several cooldowns, but they are not all for damaging purposes. Some classes are more bursty than others, and some classes need some kind of ramp up time before doing serious damage. I personally like variety. However i do believe shadow priests do need one or two more extra buttons to press, not for burst purposes per se, but for the whole rotation since it seems "empty" to me.
    I kinda liked the tier bonus from DS with the shadowfiend getting 3 orbs per hit, or even dark archangel without goint that much far.
    Please don't say "you're a hybrid not a pure DPS class". We are still supposed to do the same amount of dmg, just that our extra spells focus on support, compare hymn of hope to timewarp, every class brings something useful, it's not like we're gonna stand and heal half the time brah.
    dmg wise we're still supposed to be on pair with pure dps, otherwise no one would roll a hybrid and dps on it.

    and ramp up time, aren't warlocks supposed to have that too then since they're also dotters? nah they can insta nuke their dots with 2 buttons including using a CD on it, they can also move and cast, pop their big monster, whatever.

  20. #40
    Stood in the Fire Drfireburns's Avatar
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    If I continue playing I may just roll a damn Warlock. Save my Priest in case Blizz ever wakes up.

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