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  1. #21
    weird part is when i used it some weeks ago it tried to get me hit caped each time. i normaly only sim so i get my mastery/haste/int/crit stat value and plugg it into robot. but recently it starting to reforge alot of my hit away even though i never tuched the stat value for hit.

  2. #22
    Destruction is bad for raiding in a philosophical kind of way - such a big part of its 'performance' hinges on sniping Shadowburns/overkill damage on adds that each extra Destruction Warlock limits the performance of every other Destruction Warlock in the raid. Sniping from Destruction in general seems to be really performance neutral when raid-wide DPS is concerned.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  3. #23
    thing with destro is that it has a small niche where it does quite well, the problem is that affliction/demo does better on 80-95% of the other encounters.

  4. #24
    Brewmaster Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Destruction is bad for raiding in a philosophical kind of way - such a big part of its 'performance' hinges on sniping Shadowburns/overkill damage on adds that each extra Destruction Warlock limits the performance of every other Destruction Warlock in the raid. Sniping from Destruction in general seems to be really performance neutral when raid-wide DPS is concerned.
    >.> so sniping by destro locks is different from shadow priests sniping? from warriors execute? ret pally Hammer? I am not seeing your... "theory" on the big part.

    Destro shines by cleaving. Pure cleaving. Put that havoc on a second target, and cast that chaos bolt. 1 or more targets? rain of fire, get them embers. a proc, and ur ds is on cd? Fire that chaos bolt. It is about cleaving on cd (if more than one target), or knowing when to fire chaos bolt. That is all that it comes down to. I am pretty settle at 80-90k pending on single target fights, and 90-110k double target fights.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauron123 View Post
    ......not

    Before I proceed I must tell you

    a) I am a casual
    b) Never stepped foot into Normal or HCs...simply because I did not have time commitment for that.
    c) I am currently stationed in Bangalore,India and my lag time is around 450ms to 600 ms.
    d) I am a pure destro (main/os) from lvl 10 - 90.
    Though embarrassing I must admit that I don't even know the spells of the other two specs having played this lock from Jan 2, 2013 only.

    My toon : http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...4uron/advanced

    Having said all that, I was pleasantly surprised to do see my spec do well in LFR though ppl everywhere (wow forums/mmo/guild/trade chat) asked me to learn Aff for raiding
    a)
    -----
    http://i.imgur.com/f6F4srY.jpg

    ^ As you can see I scored 2nd in damage in LFR.
    ------

    b)
    --------
    http://i.imgur.com/94sLbUD.jpg

    ^ I scored 100k+ dps on this LFR.This was my first time breaking 100k mark (even higher in dmg done than 491 ilvl demo lock behind me...though he had better burst)
    ---------

    Only thing I did was micro-managing my embers/dark soul/havoc
    TLDR...destruction is not that bad for raiding
    PS : Would I have scored more dmg had I played Demo/Aff with my gear (and the same love that I have for destro) ?..Dunno
    I think you've got it all wrong. Nobody is saying "Destro is bad for raiding". But when played optimally, affliction will usually perform better. And like people have said, LFR logs aren't really proof of anything other than you pulled X amount of DPS. Many people screw off in LFR because you can afford to slack.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    >.> so sniping by destro locks is different from shadow priests sniping? from warriors execute? ret pally Hammer? I am not seeing your... "theory" on the big part.
    This is either bias or you're missing the devil in the details. Warriors are melee - sniping ranged adds is not viable. The difference between SW and Shadowburn is that SW is on an 8 second CD and about 1/3rd as strong. Ret pally Hammer is like that but weaker again.

    Put it this way - Zum's Tsulong log had 17% extra DPS from overkill. If you can point out another class/spec/log with that number (or even half that) I'd like to see it.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  7. #27
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    Oh come on, you really had to count ?
    I didn't thought it would be that much. But this is very useful damage anyway, since I prevent the adds from touching the boss and healing him.

    I asked GC the other day on Twitter if they knew that WoL counts overkill as normal damage but I had no answer. He said recently that Destro is good on some encounters, but it is often on those encounters that there is a lot of overkill damage (Tsulong & Elegon for example, not so much on SoF).
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-01-30 at 01:18 PM.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Put it this way - Zum's Tsulong log had 17% extra DPS from overkill. If you can point out another class/spec/log with that number (or even half that) I'd like to see it.

    Fury Warriors say Hi. They triple Destro in execute damage.

  9. #29
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    execute and overkill are too different things...
    I have yet to see a warrior spamming overkills all around the battlefield.
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-01-30 at 02:03 PM.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    execute and overkill are too different things...
    I have yet to see a warrior spamming overkills all around the battlefield.

    Because if a Fury Warrior were to Execute everything he could on a heavy add fight like Tsulong, he'd have more overkill than you.

    There's a reason Warriors want their Execute nerfed.

  11. #31
    Teye, you are missing the point. The point isn't that Destruction has the *strongest* Execute - it is that Destruction is hugely based off of 'sniping' targets. That's simply not the playstyle of any Warrior. Yeah, if they had a 40 yard range on Execute, then sure, but I am talking about the *playstyle* of Destruction, not just in comparing single skills numbers vs. numbers.

    Edit: I am a little surprised (but not entirely) to see Zum agreeing with me, but I think he understands. If the goal is for Destruction to be good at two-target cleave, then sniping via Shadowburn obscures that. In essence, it makes Destruction look amazing for a variety of fights but misrepresents the effective damage (not only just in WoL), and it actually makes Destruction not the top two-target cleave spec (which at one point Xelnath mentioned was the intention), but the best add spec.
    Last edited by Rustjive; 2013-01-30 at 03:48 PM.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Yeah, if they had a 40 yard range on Execute, then sure,

    They have a 30 yard range. Charge is off the GCD, and has a 30 yard range when glyphed. They can charge a target and Execute it nearly as fast as we can Shadowburn, and, again, Execute hits far harder. With Double Time and Heroic Leap, they can cover an insane amount of ground while sniping adds if they wanted to. They won't though, because the Rage is better served elsewhere. I'm not trying to say that Warriors do this more than Destro, or better than Destro does. I was simply disagreeing with your statement that no other spec is capable of it. Fury is more than capable, they just choose not to in most cases.

  13. #33
    If an aff lock throws up some DoTs that don't tick for half their full duration...is that overkill?




    *I wish Count Zero would put his grammer primer back in his signature. Took me 5 minutes to figure out which version of "their" to use.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-01-30 at 04:16 PM.

  14. #34
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    If an aff lock throws up some DoTs that don't tick for half their full duration...is that overkill?
    This is not really the same thing.
    This would be partially wasted GCDs but there won't be any overkill damage, thus not artificially increasing his DPS.
    When a Destro guy snipes an add he partially artificially increases its DPS, BUT the GCD is far from being wasted because you gained 1 additionnal Ember in the process and can throw a free Chaos Bolt on the main target (and the add died instantly, this can be useful in many cases like Prot & Tsulong).
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-01-30 at 04:03 PM.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    they just choose not to in most cases.
    Execute rage isn't free. Not only that, sniping is a effective DPS increase for Destruction - because of Havoc. But then you have an entire playstyle centered around killing low health adds. Do you think that such a spec is designed well from a game design perspective?

    If an aff lock throws up some DoTs that don't tick for half their full duration...is that overkill?
    I don't know where you get that number from. The only damage that needs to be done from those DoTs is damage equivalent to 3 ticks of MG for it to be DPS neutral - 1 GCD from the SB:SS and 1 from the GCD you spend on Drain Soul.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    They have a 30 yard range. Charge is off the GCD, and has a 30 yard range when glyphed. They can charge a target and Execute it nearly as fast as we can Shadowburn, and, again, Execute hits far harder. With Double Time and Heroic Leap, they can cover an insane amount of ground while sniping adds if they wanted to. They won't though, because the Rage is better served elsewhere. I'm not trying to say that Warriors do this more than Destro, or better than Destro does. I was simply disagreeing with your statement that no other spec is capable of it. Fury is more than capable, they just choose not to in most cases.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Execute rage isn't free. Not only that, sniping is a effective DPS increase for Destruction - because of Havoc. But then you have an entire playstyle centered around killing low health adds. Do you think that such a spec is designed well from a game design perspective?

    You managed to ignore my entire post, and only quote the part that made your argument relevant. Please, go read it again. I'm agreeing with you that Destro has a larger issue with sniping and overkill. I'm simply disagreeing with your previous post that only Destro is capable of such high overkill numbers.

    Edit: I even went and put the parts you should read again in bold.

  17. #37
    I wasn't really thinking DPS on logs . I was thinking what to do with my global cd's and what my job should be in the raid.

    But I see what you mean.

    When I play, if I have a chance to throw Havoc on the boss and snipe three SB's off adds I feel like I've done something fun and clever.


    As a band-aid to fix single target DPS, we should be able to Havoc SB's off of low health raid members. Of course double embers if we kill them.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-01-30 at 04:21 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    When I play, if I have a chance to throw Havoc on the boss and snipe three SB's off adds I feel like I've done something fun and clever.
    This is probably one of the best things you can do as Destro, if you're hitting a different add each time. Will of the Emp for example, Havoc one of the bosses and SB 3 different rages. Spend 3 Embers, end up with 4 and do a TON of damage to the boss.

    If you're hitting the same add each time, you're using 3 Embers, but you'll only get 2 back. It will still be a ton of damage, but 1 SB and 2 Incinerates on another target might be better.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    You managed to ignore my entire post, and only quote the part that made your argument relevant. Please, go read it again. I'm agreeing with you that Destro has a larger issue with sniping and overkill. I'm simply disagreeing with your previous post that only Destro is capable of such high overkill numbers.
    I didn't ignore your entire post - "rage is better served elsewhere" doesn't address what I was saying. What I'm saying is that if you had a million 20% adds lined up in a row, Destro would be able to snipe them all. A Fury Warrior cannot Execute each and every single one because Execute doesn't give you free resources.

    I see that your final point is a nitpicking example that Fury can potentially do more overkill on a single target ONCE. Great. On Tsulong though, a Warrior could not do more overkill even if he tried. Executes do not do 3x the damage of a Shadowburn on average. Zum's Shadowburns averaged 410k each for the entire fight. You're going to tell me that a Warrior could average 1.2m damage Executes?
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  20. #40
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    What I'm saying is that if you had a million 20% adds lined up in a row
    Could you make a job application at Blizzard please ?
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