F2P Comparison, AKA: Beating a Dead Horse

[Psychlon]

There are tons of games out there that give much more freedom and are also F2P.

Could you provide a list like this:

1) Name:
2) Population:
3.a) Restricitons:
3.b) Benefits for subs:

Let's see how many there are really because 1000 MMO's is questionable. Would be also interesting for those which aren't playing every MMO to know other/ better options.

A F2P comparions thread without any kind of "down to the facts" comparison doesn't provide much information at all but fruitless discussions.

[Edge-]

Could you provide a list like this:

1) Name:
2) Population:
3.a) Restricitons:
3.b) Benefits for subs:

Let's see how many there are really because 1000 MMO's is questionable. Would be also interesting for those which aren't playing every MMO to know other/ better options.

A F2P comparions thread without any kind of "down to the facts" comparison doesn't provide much information at all but fruitless discussions.

Considering we have about as much concrete information about playerbases for other F2P MMO's as we do for SWTOR (i.e. nothing concrete really), your second point can't be answered. If you want a list of games that give less restrictive experiences that were also games that made a transition though (i.e. didn't launch F2P, that list would be much longer).

Aion
Lineage 2
Champions Online
DC Universe Online
Vanguard
Star Trek Online (as far as I can tell, haven't played it too deeply)
Dungeons and Dragons Online/LOTRO from what I can tell as well
APB Reloaded from what I can tell
Tera (transition happens next weekend)
Fallen Earth

That's just the major/semi-major games off the top of my head. I believe some of the other recent transitions from indie titles like Mortal Online are also less restrictive, but they're absolutely super-niche titles.

Not going to do the digging for the subscriber benefits as I don't know them all off the top of my head, but feel free to check out the subscriber/free player matrix's for each game.

I'm also not getting into it because that would potentially go down a game vs. game debate route, which is against forum rules.

Again, those are just the games that transitioned from subscription only to F2P/freemium. I'm not including games that are actually F2P from the start. I'm simply pointing out that Argoth's statement is factually correct, there are a good number of F2P MMO's with far fewer restrictions.

[Argroth]

SNIP

Glad you put Psyclon in his place with your list but its really not worth it since it was shown facts and proof (pictures etc) means nothing to him. Hence why he's on my ignore list

[Psychlon]

Considering we have about as much concrete information about playerbases for other F2P MMO's as we do for SWTOR (i.e. nothing concrete really), your second point can't be answered. If you want a list of games that give less restrictive experiences that were also games that made a transition though (i.e. didn't launch F2P, that list would be much longer).

Aion
Lineage 2
Champions Online
DC Universe Online
Vanguard
Star Trek Online (as far as I can tell, haven't played it too deeply)
Dungeons and Dragons Online/LOTRO from what I can tell as well
APB Reloaded from what I can tell
Tera (transition happens next weekend)
Fallen Earth

That's just the major/semi-major games off the top of my head. I believe some of the other recent transitions from indie titles like Mortal Online are also less restrictive, but they're absolutely super-niche titles.

Not going to do the digging for the subscriber benefits as I don't know them all off the top of my head, but feel free to check out the subscriber/free player matrix's for each game.

I'm also not getting into it because that would potentially go down a game vs. game debate route, which is against forum rules.

Again, those are just the games that transitioned from subscription only to F2P/freemium. I'm not including games that are actually F2P from the start. I'm simply pointing out that Argoth's statement is factually correct, there are a good number of F2P MMO's with far fewer restrictions.

Thanks edge... I wasn't asking for "real" population numbers anyway for the same reason you say it can't be answered, however we do have indications how many people are "around" a game.

So for those which played/ play these games, what benefits are subscriber getting and how much freedom do F2P player have without paying anything. I'd prefered more benefits for subscriber/ less restrictions for F2P player for SWTOR. (to clarify that I'm not happy with their current F2P system and not defending Biowares decisions per se)

It wasn't my intend to generate a game vs. game discussion (as it's pointless and has nothing to do with a F2P comparison), however I was curious to more in dept information from player actually playing other F2P games as to what is their input to this subject.

SWTOR won't change their model without a substantial dropoff and a better, easy to implement and proven model from other games.

[Edge-]

A bit of detail on a few of the games I listed that I have more experience with and can remember in my state (I need to sleep). For the games that have their matrix's published, I'm hyperlinking them.

Aion and Lineage 2: Both 100% F2P. Zero restrictions, and no subscription option. I know Aion had 750k new accounts in the EU in the first month after its transition, and L2 has had 1.5 million new accounts in the past year. Not all are actual players (yay bots), but that's great growth for both games. The EU Aion does have restrictions though, but I can't remember them as I don't play EU.

DCUO: Locks you out of some max level content, some of the "legendary" heroes for one of the PvP modes, and some of the weapons/skillsets added in later. You got the overwhelming majority of the game that was out at the transition. Additional restrictions include character slots, money you can hold at once, and a few other things, and F2P players can purchase the DLC packs (major content updates with new powers/weapon sets/features) for about 10 bucks. It has a three tiered account system like SWTOR does. Subscribers get everything, including the major content packs, for free as well as a monthly allotment of Station Cash (I think).

Vanguard: Used to restrict character slots, race, class, housing, gear quality, and a host of other things. They've lifted most of them, so the only thing restricted I can think of off the top of my head are character slots (the removed race, class and housing restrictions recently, and gear quality limits were removed earlier). There are some secondary features they do limit (caravaning), but on the whole it's extremely minimal now. Again, subscribers get no limits at all and I think get some additional perks. The game is absolutely massive in scope, so the limitations really don't cut out that much.

Tera: Character slots, bank slots, and some other smaller things (AH system stuff). 100% of the content in the game will be delivered for free though, as well as all classes/races. Subscribers get a series of both static rewards (items) and buffs that improve the value of what is already delivered.

Here are the other matrix's from the list that I could find for reference as well.

Champions Online
Star Trek Online
Dungeons and Dragons Online
Lord of the Rings Online
Fallen Earth (not sure if this is the finalized version, but there are multiple payment levels for subscribers. It reads from left to right, Free account, $10/M, $15/M, $30/M)

Mind you, all these games came out (except Tera) with their business model changes well before SWTOR, so there have been a number example to draw from for SWTOR.

[Psychlon]

I will check the links at home and try to setup a list which may/ may not end up in a ranking for best- worst f2p model, thanks a lot for your input.