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  1. #1
    Pandaren Monk WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    F2P Comparison, AKA: Beating a Dead Horse

    SWTOR's F2P model catches a lot of flack (rightfully so I might add) because of all its restrictions and unlocks for simple gameplay features. Conversely, TERA's F2P model was just released and while it has similar Tiers (F2P, Former Owner, and Subscriber) it also has far less player restrictions between those 3 Tiers.

    Do you think games like TERA, which feature more player appreciative F2P structures, will cause SWTOR to rethink their own F2P structure? Or do you think players won't even care about a better structure because of the lure of the IP?



    Personally, I plan on DLing TERA and giving it a whirl. It was often praised for its combat mechanics, and I really wanted to give it a try to see what its all about. However, I doubt I will get heavy into it due to it being a grindy game unless the PvP is superb.

  2. #2
    Swtor will never change its f2p model, theres way way too many star wars whales who will spend lots of cash for rubbish, think darth hater had a survey recently and so many people spent over 100 dollars in just 2months after it began its silly lol.

  3. #3
    TERA is ok for me i guess... Im not a fan of their MANDATORY hotkey ability use UI but to each their own(ive always been a clicker and had no problems keeping up dps or heals wise)

    the game itsself plays kinda boring at low lvls because you only have 2-4 abilities that are spammed over and over I am sure there is more ability variety later but with all games thats the way it goes

    I just let my swtor sub lapse today and UUUUGGGGHHHHHH im only playing for dailies on 3 50s and 2 stories( BH and IA) but damn this is a a major PITA and not sure i wanna continue it now geez. im gonna sub this last month JUST so I can finish up their stories and i think tor will hit the back burner along with STO.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorfadin View Post
    Swtor will never change its f2p model
    They may if it stops being a good source of $$$. It is not a coincidence that Bioware introduced Preferred Access Bundle that combines all the items people were buying en masse on GTN instead from Bioware.

  5. #5
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoWGoneBad View Post
    TERA is ok for me i guess... Im not a fan of their MANDATORY hotkey ability use UI but to each their own(ive always been a clicker and had no problems keeping up dps or heals wise)
    You could just say you don't like action combat. You have to aim with the mouse so you wouldn't be able to click on anything even if they let you. You make it sound like they are doing some horribly regressive UI design that limits your playstyle. Do you also complain about all the horrible UIs in FPS?

    OT: I don't see SWTOR changing their model either. Mostly because it requires too much work and decreases their profit. Right now they are coasting by with the 'whales' plopping loads of cash into the Cartel Market. When that dries up they will just move on to something else.
    BAD WOLF

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post
    SWTOR's F2P model catches a lot of flack (rightfully so I might add) because of all its restrictions and unlocks for simple gameplay features. Conversely, TERA's F2P model was just released and while it has similar Tiers (F2P, Former Owner, and Subscriber) it also has far less player restrictions between those 3 Tiers.

    Do you think games like TERA, which feature more player appreciative F2P structures, will cause SWTOR to rethink their own F2P structure? Or do you think players won't even care about a better structure because of the lure of the IP?


    Personally, I plan on DLing TERA and giving it a whirl. It was often praised for its combat mechanics, and I really wanted to give it a try to see what its all about. However, I doubt I will get heavy into it due to it being a grindy game unless the PvP is superb.
    SWTOR is not very likely to make any drastic changes at this point. The only one I see in the coming future is a lowering in the cost of market items. Even those with money won't spend tons of it all the time at the prices you see now. From DH's pole, while spending my be high now, I do believe even those with tons of extra cash to spend, they will eventually tone it down a bit resulting in the lowering of the Market item cost. (all that of course is just a guess)

    Since any player can get most (if not all) convenience items from the GTN through in game credits, I doubt we see any major changes to the F2P model SWTOR has. While things are not anywhere near perfect, it's a decent perk to get what you need and want as a F2P player through in game credits (even if someone had to spend real money for that option)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You make it sound like they are doing some horribly regressive UI design that limits your playstyle. Do you also complain about all the horrible UIs in FPS?
    horribly regressive no but just not something im used to is all. looking at it from a FPS side i can see where they are coming from. like i said i have always been a clicker and let the RNG decide if i miss or not. I may not like it now but the game looks nice and I can get used to it over time.

    not sure if the whales will ever dry up though I mean the GTN is LOADED with CM items and sell more and more everyday so they are happy with getting their ingame creds at RL money and i dont see it stopping anytime. this model is what swtor is stuck with and there are idiots like me that just cant stand the restrictions and will sub once every now and again for the full benefits of the game. after this next month I am going to stop subbing for bout 3 months and giving some other MMOs my time and will sub back to see whats been going on in TOR
    Last edited by WoWGoneBad; 2013-01-29 at 04:00 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You could just say you don't like action combat. You have to aim with the mouse so you wouldn't be able to click on anything even if they let you. You make it sound like they are doing some horribly regressive UI design that limits your playstyle. Do you also complain about all the horrible UIs in FPS?

    OT: I don't see SWTOR changing their model either. Mostly because it requires too much work and decreases their profit. Right now they are coasting by with the 'whales' plopping loads of cash into the Cartel Market. When that dries up they will just move on to something else.
    agreed on both

    Tera has a very mild amount of hotkeyed abilities ... I mean, compared to how many things I had bound on WoW (12 on my mouse alone + 1-6 + modifiers) ... Tera is easy, add to that the 'chain' ability (spacebar), I don't see any issue at all. I had been away for a while, and trying to relearn felt awkward (never been much of one to use 'F' keys, apparently I was back then ), but it was still relatively fun and engaging combat.

    The 'truly' free model of Aion, and Tera (if you've purchased the game, it stays exactly the same as it is when you are subbed when the F2P hits) model are both great, and the potential future. Hell, right now, WoW charges a sub AND has a cash shop with pets and mounts at high cost; they could just drop the sub and roll out more pets and mounts and increase profits (some won't buy pets/mounts because they are subbed).

    I don't see in the near future, SWtOR changing. They are making money from the cartel market from both subbed and non-subs ... even the stuff on GTN the non-subs are buying with credits, EA is still filling their pockets from the subbers.

    If this trend stops, then you might see it change. They essentially set up a $ for credits system, in a way that doesn't involve you paying for it at a 3rd party site ... I imagine some at actiblizz are kicking themselves for not thinking of it first hell of a lot better than RMAH.

    The moddable gear system in SWtOR was a great help in setting this up (which I love btw; imagine, with this, WoW would've never had to make transmog)

    I think the Tera F2P system is one of the best out there. It offers a very slight 'boost' to those who wish to continue to support the game through a sub, keeps people who've been playing and wish not to sub, the same experience they've always had, let's new people experience the game with very little restrictions, and low cost opt in to the founder level.

    For me, their costumes are far too expensive, even though some of them are nice (my wife and I like the maid/gothic stuff for the elin, wish there was more of it for other races too, and it was available through EME). We'd never pay 10+ for them, but still want a select few

    EA doesn't make smart decisions regarding this game ... they still need to loosen the reigns on preferred players a bit. Increasing level cap for a planet xpac. Sounds like they just need new upper management with an understanding of the mmo gaming public, treating customers with respect creates loyalty which brings profits ... being a dick/greedy/greedy dick, doesn't.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post
    Do you think games like TERA, which feature more player appreciative F2P structures, will cause SWTOR to rethink their own F2P structure? Or do you think players won't even care about a better structure because of the lure of the IP?
    I wouldn't be surprised to see more tweaks, but I would be blown away if they make any significant changes at this point.

    They've had an entire market to look at, and there are multiple games with business models similar to what Tera has, and plenty more on the horizon with equally "free" models. They chose to go with a model similar to what SoE uses in EQ1/2 and used in Vanguard (they've lifted the major restrictions since then) instead, which is one of the most restrictive models in the industry at the moment.

    I just can't see them making a shift to a less restrictive model based on post-SWTOR transition game launches, as there are already plenty of F2P/freemium games with far less restrictive models already out in the wild to look at.

    As for the players, I think Star Wars fans are going to stay. They've got their game and I don't really see them going anywhere as long as there is no direct competitor (another Star Wars MMO). But for the general MMO gamer, I wouldn't be too surprised to see them peel off to other games as they come out/transition. Partially because they may view another game as better "value" for the money they spend/better "value" as a free player, and partially because that's the nature of new games. There is always a surge to check out the new title (new business model counts in this) that causes some player redistribution.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    I doubt they are going to do much, especially if the current model is profitable enough. Id guess that EA would rather cut life support on SWTOR before they try and be competitive with any other game, they have proven that much with their chosen model.

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Razael's Avatar
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    Would be nice. But i won't hold my breath. Also the damage is done. A fair share of those that tried the game and found it too restrictive likely won't ever come back.

    Off-topic: Tera F2P model is pretty sweet, any1 can recommend mmo's that are F2P with this sort of model? Besides LotrO?

  12. #12
    I hope they'll lift some of the restrictions/ lower some prices as they "hopefully" aren't proving to be profitable at its current rate.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post

    Do you think games like TERA, which feature more player appreciative F2P structures, will cause SWTOR to rethink their own F2P structure? Or do you think players won't even care about a better structure because of the lure of the IP?



    Personally, I plan on DLing TERA and giving it a whirl. It was often praised for its combat mechanics, and I really wanted to give it a try to see what its all about. However, I doubt I will get heavy into it due to it being a grindy game unless the PvP is superb.
    Bioware will almost certainly not rethink their model. They should but they wont.

    I blame people who White Knight for them no matter what, someone brings up a legitimate gripe or complaint and some start wars/bioware/swtor slave will stepo in and shoot them down because how dare someone want better in a product right? So for almost every complainer theres a slave who bioware is happy to see cancel them out.

    That and Bioware (at least the swtor section) seems to be full of idiots

    I myself am leaving swtor the moment my friends free month runs out and they go back to see how terrible it is as a F2P. They've already lost some steam on their interest in swtor, the rediculous F2P restrictions will be the final kick I think. I am going to give TERA a try simply because they say its better then swtors (which I have almost no doubt it will be better). No promises if I'll stay playing TERA but swtor is definitely on its way out.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Bioware will almost certainly not rethink their model. They should but they wont.

    I blame people who White Knight for them no matter what, someone brings up a legitimate gripe or complaint and some start wars/bioware/swtor slave will stepo in and shoot them down because how dare someone want better in a product right? So for almost every complainer theres a slave who bioware is happy to see cancel them out.
    For what they want it to accomplish, you've got to admit it's a good model though. So many subscribers want to pump so much more money into this game that Bioware made the logical decision to milk them like cows. Yes, SWTOR will continue to lose subscribers under a "charge 'em all you can" model, but in the end, they shape the remaining playerbase into that very group of "white knights" that 1) seem to have excess disposable income, and 2) are more than willing to hand it over to Bioware for . . . pretty much anything. You can't even call it a dishonest business practice to pull things like charging subscribers for content updates/turning the game into little more than Barbie Dressup via the cash shop, because time and time again the remaining players have made it clear that they LIKE it this way.

    It didn't have to be this way, but once SWTOR started hemorrhaging subscribers, one option that made business sense was to actively whittle the playerbase down to a core of die hard fans who are more than happy to pay the equivalent of three or four normal subscribers worth of money for cash shop trinkets and content updates, and who don't care much about gameplay problems/bugs/lack of content/broken promises. These people are going to remain subbed for the foreseeable future, and (can't stress this enough) WANT to pay way more money than any average MMO player spends monthly. They want their Star Wars, won't quibble over quality (or if they do, they'll still stick around), and will jump on every opportunity to pony up and keep "their Star Wars" game alive. It's a little sad, but totally win-win: Bioware/EA get to milk the remaining subs for a decent chunk of money without having to put much real effort into the game, and the remaining subs get to keep playing this particular MMO.

    SWTOR's subs are never gonna climb any higher than they are now . . . but that's not the plan. It might not be the best business model, but it's certainly working.

  15. #15
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizzaro Stormy View Post
    It's a little sad, but totally win-win: Bioware/EA get to milk the remaining subs for a decent chunk of money without having to put much real effort into the game, and the remaining subs get to keep playing this particular MMO.

    SWTOR's subs are never gonna climb any higher than they are now . . . but that's not the plan. It might not be the best business model, but it's certainly working.
    It's incredibly sad, but I have to agree with you. I've detailed a post before where I really can't judge the people wanting this, except that a very vocal portion of them are egotistical and abusive to other players in their defense of the game/company. I think the reason why it's so highly criticized is that a lot of people do want their SWTOR game, but value their money differently.

    On top of that, most F2P models have been progressive in nature. Allowing for more and better models to be created. This one is draconian and will be constantly referred to in the never ending rant of how F2P is terrible, etc, etc. I think that alone is a large enough detriment for us to be very angry still.
    BAD WOLF

  16. #16
    So uh...yeah. The earnings call didn't indicate any strength with the transition. They barely mentioned the game (again), attributed their digital sales primarily to mobile and Fifa, and talked about their Simpsons game more than SWTOR. Star Wars wasn't even in the CEO's list of the top 10 profitable franchises at EA that he gave (which was off the top of his head) : /

    I wonder if they're interpreting the lack of strength as a result of a poor business model or as a result of a poor MMO market...because that's going to define how they work on the game moving forward.

  17. #17
    ??? Why should they change the model, Swtor is the cheapest mmo to play now, GW2 and Wow is a lot more expensive to play. When I mean cheapest mmo game, all other mmo games are pointless to mention as there playerbase is insignificant compared to GW2, Wow and Swtor in EU/US.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Akkep View Post
    ??? Why should they change the model, Swtor is the cheapest mmo to play now, GW2 and Wow is a lot more expensive to play. When I mean cheapest mmo game, all other mmo games are pointless to mention as there playerbase is insignificant compared to GW2, Wow and Swtor in EU/US.
    Your clarification sentence didn't clear up anything...I have no clue what you're trying to say.

    Cheapest financially for the player? Patently false. There are games that provide much more content for free, and in some cases all the content for free.

    Other MMO's pointless to mention: Why exactly? They exist. They're in competition. They absolutely factor into the equation.

    Population sizes: We don't have any firm numbers on the current Western size of WoW last I checked, and zero information about SWTOR since the "Well over 500k" from 6 months ago. Beyond that, we know 3M sales of GW2, and have other games that have healthy playerbases (STO has 3 million players, not sure the active number though. TSW sold about 300k last I remember, then another 70k the month after transitioning to B2P. Lineage 2 saw 1.5 million new accounts in the past year since going F2P in the West, many are likely bot accounts though).

    I really have no clue what you are trying to say...

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    So uh...yeah. The earnings call didn't indicate any strength with the transition. They barely mentioned the game (again), attributed their digital sales primarily to mobile and Fifa, and talked about their Simpsons game more than SWTOR. Star Wars wasn't even in the CEO's list of the top 10 profitable franchises at EA that he gave (which was off the top of his head) : /

    I wonder if they're interpreting the lack of strength as a result of a poor business model or as a result of a poor MMO market...because that's going to define how they work on the game moving forward.
    Meh doesn't sound promising... EA has this annoying "it either sells 5 million + or brings 5 million subs or we're not deeply committed to it anymore" mentality.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Akkep View Post
    ??? Why should they change the model, Swtor is the cheapest mmo to play now, GW2 and Wow is a lot more expensive to play. When I mean cheapest mmo game, all other mmo games are pointless to mention as there playerbase is insignificant compared to GW2, Wow and Swtor in EU/US.
    Wow you just don't make any sense.

    There are tons of games out there that give much more freedom and are also F2P. The restrictions given to swtor F2P players actually makes it more of an expensive game, you get less stuff for free as opposed to others where you get more for free.

    It get the same amount in swtor as you would for others you would have to spend money (or be able to grind obscene amounts of credits at low levels). Even still the credit caps make some things nearly impossible to get even if you could grind out the max you could at low levels. Then there are still restictions that cannot be unlocked no matter how many credits or real money you drop on/in the game.

    Don't make me laugh at saying its the cheapest. At best its the same as any other F2P game at regular/worst its far worse then the many other F2P games.

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