Thread: Unholy PvE

  1. #1
    Blademaster Protreh's Avatar
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    Unholy PvE

    As you all know with 5.2 changes, dk's will be nerfed cause of the set 2 change and it will hurt frost more than unholy. With the qol changes coming up to unholy, I believe unholy will be better or on par with frost.

    On this content I only had to use unholy twice, gara'jal hc first kill and elegon hc first kill, so I didn't really change my entire set just cause of those fights and done them with frost stat priority.

    Now I'm looking into stat weighs of unholy to arrange my bis list from 5.1 and use it when 5.2 hits but now simcraft has this crit > haste > mastery build and askmrrobot has haste > crit > mastery build. In the begining of mop Simcraft had the same stat build as what askmrrobot has right now and that changed like 2 months ago or so I believe ( not entirely sure when it changed ).

    Since I'm not playing unholy that much and currently I'm tanking so I can't really test out unholy atm to have a look on everything. So I was wondering if you guys know which stat build unholy uses and why ? I'd be pleased if you could help me with my situation here. And ofc I'd like to ask if the simcraft stat weighs are correct or not.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    It just depends on your gear. At a certain haste break point your stat priority begins to change. Crit becomes better than haste. Thus, it might say haste>crit>mastery and then change to crit>haste>mastery. But at that point haste=crit>mastery.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Jarg's Avatar
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    Experiences shows that at 6-7k haste is that threshold when you can pay continously without major downtime so basicly you want this haste till 7k>crit>(haste?)>mastery
    But this is the thing you need to check yourself, what is the ammount of haste you need to eliminate the downtimes while not capping resources.

  4. #4
    I'm currently running 8055 haste from gear. I just simmed myself and I find that haste still beats out crit 1.77 to 1.62. You should double check your # of iterations ( try 50k) and probably link your armory.

    I've yet to sim the BIS profile to see but last check I believe it was haste>crit>mastery.

  5. #5
    Keep in mind that haste is going to be worse than it sims on any encounter with magic damage because of the extra resources from anti magic shell.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    As people have said, once you hit the 6-7k haste point as unholy then crit's comparable. AMS absorbs, movement etc devalue haste anyway and, as unholy you can't just go spamming howling blast if you're stuck out of range for a considerable amount of time.
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  7. #7
    The Patient Magdalena's Avatar
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    Simcraft contains some rather large bugs for Unholy. When considering the 5.2 changes, there's likely to be some changes. We'll work on providing the Simcraft devs with the new data we've collected soon enough.

    The biggest change we've found thus far is that past 6000 Haste, Crit is pretty much on par with the stat. Past 8500 Haste, Crit actively becomes far better.
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  8. #8
    Blademaster Aerdil's Avatar
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    Well, but why crit>mastery? In my opinion mastery is better for unholy. Considering a really awesome damage of our Blood Plague even on solo target fights (For example Ta'yak - 13% on solo target is kinda great ^^ ) and enormous damage of our SRs (even of non crits), I think that mastery is better than crit for unholy even on solo target encounters. And with new gargoyle in 5.2, 4 T15, loss of 2 T14 bonus (which can make use of DnD on solotarget profitable again) mastery is going to outperform crit by a great margin.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerdil View Post
    Well, but why crit>mastery? In my opinion mastery is better for unholy. Considering a really awesome damage of our Blood Plague even on solo target fights (For example Ta'yak - 13% on solo target is kinda great ^^ ) and enormous damage of our SRs (even of non crits), I think that mastery is better than crit for unholy even on solo target encounters. And with new gargoyle in 5.2, 4 T15, loss of 2 T14 bonus (which can make use of DnD on solotarget profitable again) mastery is going to outperform crit by a great margin.
    I'm sorry, but that is not a convincing argument for why mastery would be better. Point for point, 1% crit will outdamage 1% mastery, because mastery only effects some attacks, while crit effects all.

  10. #10
    Blademaster Aerdil's Avatar
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    Maybe, maybe, but even after all those stats a so close to each other that all difference between crit>mastery and mastery>crit reforge can be totally minimized by rng. So I prefer mastery for big numbers of SR *_*

  11. #11
    Its fine if that's what you prefer, just don't try to spread false information saying mastery > crit.

  12. #12
    Blademaster Aerdil's Avatar
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    Mmm, maybe I just need to sleep more than 2-3 hours in 2-3 days, but:
    So, taking my stats - 2018 crit raiting (+3,36%) which makes 1% crit = ~600 raiting
    and mastery - 5304 raiting (+22,1%) => 1% mastery = 240 raiting
    For example, Tay'ak
    Firstly, at this moment mastery doesn't affects any of our pets, so damage of deathknight without his pets is 4,87/6,18=~78,802%
    And shadow damage of dk without pets is 53,6%, so it is 0,536*0,78802=42,237872%

    So mastery affects 42,237872% of our damage (I don't think that Tay'ak in HC is specific encounter, but imho it is the closest fight to patchwerk this content)
    So, 1% of crit bumps up our dps by 1%, so you need 1/0,42237872=~2,3675435% of mastery to up your dps by 1%
    And 1% mastery is 240 raiting, so 2,3675435*240=~568 raiting.
    568 mastery or 600 crit for 1% dps. Of course here can be many mistakes, so I don't really sure >_>

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerdil View Post
    Mmm, maybe I just need to sleep more than 2-3 hours in 2-3 days, but:
    So, taking my stats - 2018 crit raiting (+3,36%) which makes 1% crit = ~600 raiting
    and mastery - 5304 raiting (+22,1%) => 1% mastery = 240 raiting
    For example, Tay'ak
    Firstly, at this moment mastery doesn't affects any of our pets, so damage of deathknight without his pets is 4,87/6,18=~78,802%
    And shadow damage of dk without pets is 53,6%, so it is 0,536*0,78802=42,237872%

    So mastery affects 42,237872% of our damage (I don't think that Tay'ak in HC is specific encounter, but imho it is the closest fight to patchwerk this content)
    So, 1% of crit bumps up our dps by 1%, so you need 1/0,42237872=~2,3675435% of mastery to up your dps by 1%
    And 1% mastery is 240 raiting, so 2,3675435*240=~568 raiting.
    568 mastery or 600 crit for 1% dps. Of course here can be many mistakes, so I don't really sure >_>
    if your using your own dmg for that, it'll be off, since your percentages were already affected by mastery. you'll have to calculate how much they do without mastery, then compare using those numbers

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RedFlame View Post
    if your using your own dmg for that, it'll be off, since your percentages were already affected by mastery. you'll have to calculate how much they do without mastery, then compare using those numbers
    Was about to say this damn you!

    But to Aerdil,

    Considering you have 20% more mastery than me and the difference is only 32 raiting, its likely that this is the reason for it seeming like they are closer than they actually are.

  15. #15
    yeah, beat you to it =P

    and i forgot to mention, don't take off all the mastery if you redo the calculation, keep on the base 20%, and the raidbuff 3k

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RedFlame View Post
    yeah, beat you to it =P

    and i forgot to mention, don't take off all the mastery if you redo the calculation, keep on the base 20%, and the raidbuff 3k
    The best way is simply through sims. Since we don't have any tank and spank fights anymore that are perfectly patchwerk. Simcraft even has a nice function showing the fluctuation of your dps as you change your reforging from crit to mastery and vice versa.

  17. #17
    The Patient Magdalena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerdil View Post
    Mmm, maybe I just need to sleep more than 2-3 hours in 2-3 days, but:
    So, taking my stats - 2018 crit raiting (+3,36%) which makes 1% crit = ~600 raiting
    and mastery - 5304 raiting (+22,1%) => 1% mastery = 240 raiting
    For example, Tay'ak
    Firstly, at this moment mastery doesn't affects any of our pets, so damage of deathknight without his pets is 4,87/6,18=~78,802%
    And shadow damage of dk without pets is 53,6%, so it is 0,536*0,78802=42,237872%

    So mastery affects 42,237872% of our damage (I don't think that Tay'ak in HC is specific encounter, but imho it is the closest fight to patchwerk this content)
    So, 1% of crit bumps up our dps by 1%, so you need 1/0,42237872=~2,3675435% of mastery to up your dps by 1%
    And 1% mastery is 240 raiting, so 2,3675435*240=~568 raiting.
    568 mastery or 600 crit for 1% dps. Of course here can be many mistakes, so I don't really sure >_>
    Not the right way to calculate the value of these stats via parses.
    Consider produced a more accurate method in Cataclysm. Simply accommodate MoP additions: http://considerit1.wordpress.com/201...ade-mea-culpa/
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  18. #18
    It's actually closer to 8000 haste rating that crit surpasses haste. Maybe even as low as 7800-7900.

  19. #19
    Blademaster Aerdil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nangz View Post
    Was about to say this damn you!

    But to Aerdil,

    Considering you have 20% more mastery than me and the difference is only 32 raiting, its likely that this is the reason for it seeming like they are closer than they actually are.
    Oh yes, my fault. Not to sleep for 4-5 days is bad =\
    So, considering my "gear-mastery" (on that kill I had 5140 mastery, this is 21,41% mastery), crit is better than mastery after all.
    Taking of all that "overdamage" which was done with 5140 mastery got 613 mastery raiting vs 600 crit.

    And yes, calculating the value of stats via parses is not ok. Rng is rng after all.
    Sorry for disturbance =(

    P.S.
    Thanks for the link to Consider's blog, been looking for it few days ago ^^

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