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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    Vizier zorlok 25hc

    We had fight with one of our officer about mc:s, because i dont see any reason to spread my poisons on them. Im one of the top dps in our guild and my poisons would tick something like 50k+ on every mc:ed player after aoeing them down, so i told him that me being on boss, is overall better for us. Then he told me to single target mc:ed players, with good luck i could actually have time to throw one mutilate on that player? Also we were not wiping cos of mc:s. I want opinions, what you other guys think rogues should be doing during that?

  2. #2
    Your options, unless you're really struggling for help with breaking them, come down to adding extra damage onto MC targets after MC breaks, as you point out, or speccing combat. Combat's... kindof a waste on this fight, as mut's damage (especially if you're on echoes) allows for slight multidotting and the brief damage gain while switching platforms, +damage through you getting MC'd, and combat can't KS at will during the encounter, causing cooldown downtime.

    Realistically you're just not suited for it as mut. Potentially you could ostensibly spec sub to pop CT on them as MCs go out for that burst AoE? I wouldn't recommend it.

  3. #3
    I can't imagine a raid comp where you should be switching to the MCed players, leaving them with big dots, instead of any of the everyone else. This sounds like one of those "this mechanic super sucks for rogues, so we'll make you do it because we players who are good at it have to and it nerfs our boss dps so you should suffer too".

    Unless your team just can't handle it, it seems silly.

  4. #4
    seems like a ridiculous complaint. however, your damage that lingers is highly healable and won't be a problem

  5. #5
    I dunno, a mutilate rogue deadly ticks pretty high, and that fight is already super harsh on healers.

  6. #6
    Raid damage is high if people are being hit by attenuation and during force and verve, but it's not particularly bad during platform 3 phase 1.

    OP: if you're referring to phase 2, yeah you should probably break people out before the next special...

  7. #7
    Dreadlord
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    I generally don't break people out as we simply have "better" classes suited for it most of the time that can do higher aoe burst without leaving the extra DoT-damage. But it's not unhealable by any means so if you need the extra damage to break people out there's no real reason not to do so.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I can't imagine a raid comp where you should be switching to the MCed players, leaving them with big dots, instead of any of the everyone else. This sounds like one of those "this mechanic super sucks for rogues, so we'll make you do it because we players who are good at it have to and it nerfs our boss dps so you should suffer too".

    Unless your team just can't handle it, it seems silly.
    Yeah, pretty much this. I can just hear our healers joy if we had 3 rogues all fok the mc's and they had triple deadly poison stacks plus whatever other minor dots other people put on them. And having you peel off to single target a single mc (and still leaving a nice hefty dot) doesn't seem like a good use of your time when other people can AE them.

    Now sure in p2 if some one gets caught out of the group and mc'd, it could be worth stepping over to break him if some nasty special is coming before it looks like others will have him free.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    I would say to stick to the boss. Sure, FoK can break people out pretty easy but putting poisons up on that many people when others can break them out just as easy without the added damage afterwards seems like a waste of potential.

    Edit- I don't bother targeting the MC's at all, AoE or Single target. I'm not a big fan of healer aggro on mumble.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-01-30 at 07:53 AM.

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  10. #10
    Guess it depends on your healers. Breaking MC fast is a major DPS increase so it should be done as fast as possible without killing anyone - if the healers can outheal DP (shouldn't never be a problem unless a lot of people are dotting them up), you should help get them down. If they're already broken within seconds your officer is being unreasonable.

  11. #11
    High Overlord
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    Thx for responses this have been very helpfull.

  12. #12
    The real problem, if you have people complaining about your poison damage, is the healers. There is NOTHING going on during an MC phase other than tank damage (predictable), Exhale damage (predictable), and lingering dots on the MCs. If you were a warlock, THEN I would understand not wanting to dot up the MC target, but as a Rogue? Just don't Rupture and you'll be good.

    Note: You can take off your non-lethal poison without it affecting DP damage, and I'd recommend it; Leeching Poison means you can't take Cheat Death (HIGHLY recommend taking Cheat Death), and the other 3 non-lethals will cause serious problems both in and out of MC.
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  13. #13
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp The Fish View Post
    The real problem, if you have people complaining about your poison damage, is the healers. There is NOTHING going on during an MC phase other than tank damage (predictable), Exhale damage (predictable), and lingering dots on the MCs. If you were a warlock, THEN I would understand not wanting to dot up the MC target, but as a Rogue? Just don't Rupture and you'll be good.

    Note: You can take off your non-lethal poison without it affecting DP damage, and I'd recommend it; Leeching Poison means you can't take Cheat Death (HIGHLY recommend taking Cheat Death), and the other 3 non-lethals will cause serious problems both in and out of MC.
    Wth man? deadly poison does the damage, and it comes from fok and auto attack also... taking off poisons is pretty much same, than going without weapons..

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Treghell View Post
    Wth man? deadly poison does the damage, and it comes from fok and auto attack also... taking off poisons is pretty much same, than going without weapons..
    I think what he is saying is if you have a non lethal on like crip or mind numbing to be sure to remove it. I have seen rogues that prefer to have both kinds of poisons up constantly (except in cases with MC where you need to take them off). I personally don't bother applying a non lethal unless I have leeching in raids barring the rare case its going to do something like crip on will.

  15. #15
    Ok, i am currently progressing on this boss with guild and have a few questions.

    * Taking off crippling poison, does it affect your overall dps? Take it off just before third platform?

    * During phase 3 when the attuneation comes around the whole middle, wtf to do? We are whiping there cuz is seems to not follow the same pattern as in phase 1.

    * Nerve strike as talent instead of Combat readinees, is it good? I am going Cheat death, which talent do you recommend?

    * When to use Bloodlust? When to use pot, together with bloodlust or is it better at one of the echoes?

    * Any tip for a rogue?

    Going again tonight, got it down to 19% with 17 whipes. Thanks for responses.
    Last edited by Shrih; 2013-01-31 at 09:52 AM.

  16. #16
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrih View Post
    Ok, i am currently progressing on this boss with guild and have a few questions.

    * Taking off crippling poison, does it affect your overall dps? Take it off just before third platform?

    * During phase 3 when the attuneation comes around the whole middle, wtf to do? We are whiping there cuz is seems to not follow the same pattern as in phase 1.

    * Nerve strike as talent instead of Combat readinees, is it good? I am going Cheat death, which talent do you recommend?

    * When to use Bloodlust? When to use pot, together with bloodlust or is it better at one of the echoes?

    * Any tip for a rogue?

    Going again tonight, got it down to 19% with 17 whipes. Thanks for responses.
    During phase 3, easiest way is to take boss behind pilar and when there is two attunation going on just run as far as possible and only greend discs will reach you.
    Nerve strike is useless in pve mostly, you shouldnt ve stunning anything on there.
    Use bloodlust when echo spawns and second potion also, so there will be only one double attunation.
    About cheatdeath in this fight, its useless if you know exactly what to do and dont fail on discs anyway it can save you.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrih View Post
    Ok, i am currently progressing on this boss with guild and have a few questions.

    * Taking off crippling poison, does it affect your overall dps? Take it off just before third platform?
    Utility poison has no impact on DPS. Crippling might be nice on 3rd platform though, to prevent MC'd from running off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrih View Post
    * During phase 3 when the attuneation comes around the whole middle, wtf to do? We are whiping there cuz is seems to not follow the same pattern as in phase 1.
    The echo transition in P2 is what's wiping us as well. So far it seems there's a pattern though: Attenuation > Attenuation/F&W > Echo > Convert. What we do is have the one tanking boss (currently our monk) get gripped to the other side of the room by a priest while everyone stays on echo to cc and nuke down converted people. After that you pretty much have to haul ass (Stampeding Roar, Drums of Speed etc.) to get away from Attenuations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrih View Post
    * Nerve strike as talent instead of Combat readinees, is it good? I am going Cheat death, which talent do you recommend?
    I'm going with Elusiveness. Cheat Death is a nice buffer against Attenuations, but once you get the hang of it you shouldn't take damage anyway; Elusiveness on the other hand helps a lot on platform 1 and P2 when two have to stay outside (10man).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrih View Post
    * When to use Bloodlust? When to use pot, together with bloodlust or is it better at one of the echoes?
    Currently doing it just as P2 begins, as that gives most overall uptime.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachtobi View Post
    I'm going with Elusiveness. Cheat Death is a nice buffer against Attenuations, but once you get the hang of it you shouldn't take damage anyway; Elusiveness on the other hand helps a lot on platform 1 and P2 when two have to stay outside (10man).
    I run with elusiveness too, and glyphed cloak and prep. This helps because I stand outside with the tank to soak force and verve when the group is split between an echo and boss and it is also a great help in the last phase if you find yourself seperated from healers or again having to soak force and verve or even just in case you get trapped by a bunch of rings can't help but soak one (RNG being a pretty major factor). We have only 2 kills so far and the last phase has a tendency to get messy so I feel being able to keep myself up can really help, a dead dps does no dps after all

    I always pop my anoying CDs in advance of any MC phase (first time we did the fight I blinded the tank and popped a smoke bomb down - people weren't happy!). For the same reason I don't use any non-lethal poison either.

    Good luck

  19. #19
    Dealing with the final phase transition. (Hopefully it links right, its 6 minutes into the video is when the phase change happens)



    It'll always be the same pattern, sometimes skipping the MC, but usually not.

    After that first MC he won't cast it anymore. You might not want to poison the MCs but the fact is they'll blow people up, and more often than not its a healer. They'll also slow, making it hard to avoid the rings.

  20. #20
    If you're having problems healing the poisons at that last part, have your monk use revival as a cooldown there.

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