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  1. #261
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Are you guys really arguing if a faction is allowed to take over territories.. IN A WAR?
    Horde and Alliance are fighting for control of Azeroth.

    Do people expect them to bypass Southshore and march onto Arathi Highlands while leaving an Alliance-harbour in their back?

  2. #262
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    T

    If Garrosh hadn't been racist against the trolls and such for no reason I'd have been behind him 100%
    It doesn't even really seem to be against trolls, but rather against Vol'jin and (unfortunately) the Darkspear hang on Vol'jin's every word and thought so they get included in that hate.

    Now the Sin'dorei, he is racist against them for no real reason
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  3. #263
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    I'd say that although Sylvanas is evil and does a lot of crap others won't like, she didn't quite get into everyone's nerves as much as Garrosh did, nor did she single handedly start breaking the Horde apart from the inside. Regardless of the twisted crap Sylvanas is responsible for, she still didn't have enough influence to cause the Horde to crumble. Garrosh is in a position of a lot more importance than Sylvanas, he's not just the orc leader, he's the supreme leader of the entire Horde and all its races. It's not like you can just kick him or all the orcs (one of the founding races of the Horde) out of the Horde or shut him up and restrict his actions like Thrall did to Sylvanas after the Wrathgate (or at least he tried to). Nothing short of a rebellion or divine intervetion will remove him from power. As we've seen on the Horde-side version of the 5.1 quest line, some orcs don't even recognize Thrall as fit for leading anymore, so a peaceful switch of Warchief won't do either.
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  4. #264
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    how Garrosh broke the horde

    got picked over vol'jin so vol;jin got mad
    carine was tricked and this led to the series of events that led to him falsely accusing garrosh of a crime and.... then accepts a battle to the death... and dies.
    calls sylvanas a bitch

    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Praise REGGIE! MY BODY IS READY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

  5. #265
    Sylvanas may be evil but Garrosh is single handily destroying the horde.
    Also this:
    “A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever.”
    ― Shigeru Miyamoto

  6. #266
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFu4ever View Post
    But I do find your use of this quote curious, since it states that securing Lordaeron would bring relief to the Forsaken. That doesn't sound like a quote from someone who plans to launch further wars of conquest. It sounds like someone trying secure their home.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Clearing_the_Highlands
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Call_to_Arms

    They want Stromgarde and Arathi as well. This is no longer about conquering just Lordaeron.

    Quote Originally Posted by DFu4ever View Post
    And South Shore not being an Alliance outpost is one of the most absurd things I've heard on a WoW forum.
    You've yet to provide anything to support your claims.
    The only quote there is mentions that Soutshore having a military presence consists of a small garrison to deal with local nasties like Murlocs coupled with the town having no plans to attack or be used in conjunction with any offensive, to add to this even in the game itself there were few soldiers seen in the town. So no there is no evidence to call it a military target. Again as I mentioned the Forsaken wanted it as a place to live in and thus showing that it wasn't destroyed as it was seen as a threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by DFu4ever View Post
    Also, Sylvanas has argued against Garrosh's terrible ideas. She was against attacking Theramore because it would likely lead to even more Alliance invading her territory. Obviously she was ignored.
    Which doesn't prove a thing about her not liking a good conquest, she just enjoys them when it's on her terms.
    On a side note it's stupid how Blizzard hasn't capitalised on this in game at all which the Alliance reinforcing the EK front.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-01-31 at 11:27 PM.

  7. #267
    Scarab Lord -Zait-'s Avatar
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    I'm glad she destroyed Southshore, it had to be blight nuked. The fricken Allys kept attacking my level 20 self when I leveled there. You have no idea how hard I laughed when I saw that in Cataclysm. Also she doesn't mind control. Also yes the Alliance discriminate against the Forsaken all the time because they're undead. Have you forgotten about the Scarlet Crusade? Varian in the Undercity fight? You get the idea.

    Also she isn't Warchief and does things that are best for the Forsaken. Garrosh is a rabid dog. No need to kill Sylvanas. She isn't a villain (unless your Alliance) she's an anti-hero. Hopefully one day those orcs will get kicked from Undercity and she and the Horde will let the rest of the Forsaken just blight nuke Darnassus, Stormwind, the Exodar, and Ironforge then be done with the war....hmmmm maybe one day... (:
    Last edited by -Zait-; 2013-01-31 at 10:29 PM.

  8. #268
    To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a southern Forsaken outpost established as a huge "Fuck You" to Stormwind. For extra hilarity, the Forsaken bring food for the starving population just to irritate the Alliance.

    EDIT: I have to imagine one of the non-lore metareasons for Southshore being the most destroyed town ever is that the devs knew how annoying that place was for Forsaken players. If they were going to use the Blight anywhere, it was going to be South Shore. Honestly, screw that town.

  9. #269
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    how Garrosh broke the horde

    got picked over vol'jin so vol;jin got mad
    carine was tricked and this led to the series of events that led to him falsely accusing garrosh of a crime and.... then accepts a battle to the death... and dies.
    calls sylvanas a bitch
    orders the forsaken to take gilneas.

    Sorry is that salt in that wound old dog?

  10. #270
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Do people expect them to bypass Southshore and march onto Arathi Highlands while leaving an Alliance-harbour in their back?
    Well as I mentioned earlier it's not necessarily the attack, but how it was carried out.

  11. #271
    Aside from the plague, she isn't doing anything bad. Freshly ressurected Forsaken have the option to join or to go back to death again, she isn't forcing anyone.

    I have to admit I completly forgot she even existed since the end of Cata. Guess it's just not a character that impresses me and sticks with me.

  12. #272
    I am pretty sure if the orcs or forsaken had a town in westfall Varian would have completely ignored it. Lore side wasn't the reason for the horde gaining new territory to balance the leveling zones because the allys had more leveling content or something like that.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    What are on about? Gilneas, Southshore, Hinterlands and Stromgarde say hi!
    The Alliance invasion in Silverpine is a counter attack for Forsaken aggression to put an end to their offensive. This is a fact, to imply otherwise is ignoring the timeline.

    The Forsaken have quite literally expanded into every zone within arms reach, even those that were not a part of Lordaeron, killing left and right in what is a genocidal fashion without any regard for the victims. So when the Alliance counter attacks the Forsaken, the Alliance are the bad guys? Just no.
    Is conquering land evil in itself ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    The description specifically says it's taking place after the events of Silverpine.
    Hmm ok i did not know that.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenedfist View Post
    I am pretty sure if the orcs or forsaken had a town in westfall Varian would have completely ignored it. Lore side wasn't the reason for the horde gaining new territory to balance the leveling zones because the allys had more leveling content or something like that.
    Basically. Alliance suffers losses today due to poor map design in 2004.

    Edit: yeah, I meant "today" as in the Cata world update.
    Last edited by Darmalus; 2013-02-01 at 12:00 AM.

  15. #275
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    On topic, she will most likely play her role during the Siege, and knowing Blizzards writing, she will be kinda redeemed from all the bad stuff she did. I don't know, she will start raising only non-GMO corpse or something.
    I'm thinking she's keeping her head down on purpose, to shoulder off some of the heat and let Garrosh take it instead (intentionally, I bet, so she can join in when things get ugly for Garrosh). Static world being static, though, we'd need a dev's word on whether she's still going buck-wild in the northern Eastern Kingdoms or reining herself in there, too, to really keep a low profile while Garrosh goes about making an enemy of every other faction on the planet.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 06:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    Basically. Alliance suffers losses today due to poor map design in 2004.
    Today being last expansion. Pandaria content has been almost nothing but the Horde fracturing and the Alliance getting their shit together where the faction war's featured (though Daelin-in-Jaina's-skin has taken King Chynn's old job as the divisive asshole within her faction).

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    Basically. Alliance suffers losses today due to poor map design in 2004.
    If you look at it from a gameplay perspective then yes, blizz decided to balance out the zones since they were doing the complete 1-60 overhaul. Today? as I see it in mop the alliance are gaining some wins like in dalaran and also the alliance is more united and got it's stuff together then the horde.
    Last edited by Darkenedfist; 2013-01-31 at 11:59 PM.

  17. #277
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFu4ever View Post
    To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a southern Forsaken outpost established as a huge "Fuck You" to Stormwind. For extra hilarity, the Forsaken bring food for the starving population just to irritate the Alliance.

    EDIT: I have to imagine one of the non-lore metareasons for Southshore being the most destroyed town ever is that the devs knew how annoying that place was for Forsaken players. If they were going to use the Blight anywhere, it was going to be South Shore. Honestly, screw that town.
    Outside of the world PvP battles between it and Tarren Mill, Southshore had the double whammy of being one of the few non-suck places for Alliance to level in that bracket as well as being balls-out of the way for some random reason.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Clearing_the_Highlands
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Call_to_Arms

    They want Stromgarde and Arathi as well. This is no longer about conquering just Lordaeron.
    those quests are not about conquering strom, but destroying threats to the forsaken in strom.

    the forsaken did defeat everyone in there. than they took the trollbane sword and went home. they didn't really want to stay there.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  19. #279
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    those quests are not about conquering strom, but destroying threats to the forsaken in strom.

    the forsaken did defeat everyone in there. than they took the trollbane sword and went home. they didn't really want to stay there.
    Guys seriously don't let this guy 'fact check' you.

    If we are to secure these lands under the Dark Lady's rule,

    Excellent. The march of the Forsaken continues.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Clearing_the_Highlands


    Cleared out properly? Good. I doubt we'll even bother to lurk in Stromgarde. That ramshackle hold needs to be razed into dust.
    The land would make a decent spot for a new Undercity in its place.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Call_to_Arms


    This is but a prelude to the slaughter we will visit upon these lands. All will know our name.
    You have done well, <name>. Victory for Sylvanas!
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:First_Blood
    Last edited by Skytotem; 2013-02-01 at 01:00 AM.
    Twas brillig

  20. #280
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Is conquering land evil in itself ?
    In a civilised world yes, hence why it's an international crime irl. Needless to say applying it to WoW isn't straight forward, so while I'd say in WoW it's not evil due to the standards of the time it's set in and obviously the fact there is no global body that sets out laws, it's certainly not right or just either in any shape or form though.

    My gripe though is how the Forsaken handled it. They attacked places like Southshore unprovoked using WMD's killing many and leaving the place uninhabitable for a few hundred years while pursuing it's civilian population in what is clearly attempted genocide. This is why I'm having a hard time accepting the opinion of the rest of the Horde accepting Sylvanas after this.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-01 at 09:52 AM.

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