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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I
    My gripe though is how the Forsaken handled it. They attacked places like Southshore unprovoked using WMD's killing many and leaving the place uninhabitable for a few hundred years while pursuing it's civilian population in what is clearly attempted genocide. This is why I'm having a hard time accepting the opinion of the rest of the Horde accepting Sylvanas after this.
    because... the forsaken are attacking HUMANS, who are AT WAR with the horde.


    why does that even need to be explained, it's horde vs alliance.

  2. #282
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonoy8 View Post
    because... the forsaken are attacking HUMANS, who are AT WAR with the horde.


    why does that even need to be explained, it's horde vs alliance.
    There was no actual war prior to Cataclysm. Even then Tides of War seems to indicate the fighting during Cataclysm wasn't as intense as the zones indicated, to the point where the Alliance hadn't even committed itself to fighting.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-01 at 11:10 AM.

  3. #283
    Glory to the banshee queen etc.

    Seriously though, you alliance filth are being handed a siege of freakin' Orgrimmar and you still want more? My personal hope is that you all die to the plague, preferably with your flesh rotting while you're still alive. Mama Sylvy will let you join the winning team after.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    In a civilised world yes, hence why it's an international crime irl. Needless to say applying it to WoW isn't straight forward, so while I'd say in WoW it's not evil due to the standards of the time it's set in and obviously the fact there is no global body that sets out laws, it's certainly not right or just either in any shape or form though.

    My gripe though is how the Forsaken handled it. They attacked places like Southshore unprovoked using WMD's killing many and leaving the place uninhabitable for a few hundred years while pursuing it's civilian population in what is clearly attempted genocide. This is why I'm having a hard time accepting the opinion of the rest of the Horde accepting Sylvanas after this.
    I wrote it before.. have you seen what the normal horde catapults fire ? It's burning ammunition. So if Sylvanas had used normal horde weapons everyone in Southshore would have burned to death. And look at what the Kirin Tor are capable of with their magic or what the gnomes experimented with in Gnomereagan.
    It's a harsh world but i think if you'd live there you wouldn't see plague bombs as something tremendously despicable.

  5. #285
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I wrote it before.. have you seen what the normal horde catapults fire ? It's burning ammunition. So if Sylvanas had used normal horde weapons everyone in Southshore would have burned to death. And look at what the Kirin Tor are capable of with their magic or what the gnomes experimented with in Gnomereagan.
    It's a harsh world but i think if you'd live there you wouldn't see plague bombs as something tremendously despicable.
    Again it's all down to the implementation as I keep rabitting about . It wasn't a military target and Sylvanas went out of her way to kill it's civilians.
    Supposedly everybody was left aghast when Garrosh bombed the crap out of Theramore, but when Sylvanas does it to a smaller town and then hunts down it's fleeing civilians it get's completely brushed under the rug.

    Seems we keep going in circles with these issues .

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Again it's all down to the implementation as I keep rabitting about . It wasn't a military target and Sylvanas went out of her way to kill it's civilians.
    Supposedly everybody was left aghast when Garrosh bombed the crap out of Theramore, but when Sylvanas does it to a smaller town and then hunts down it's fleeing civilians it get's completely brushed under the rug.

    Seems we keep going in circles with these issues .
    Well that depends on what side you see yourself. I don't think the horde has that much of a problem with bombing Threamore. It spared the life of horde soldiers and was an effective way to neutralize the threat Threamore posed. And Southshore.. well it's the horde conquering land. Nothing wrong with that either.
    The alliance sees it differently, naturally. But if the night elves dropped some bomb on Splintertree, would you be up in arms about it ? Probably not i guess. I've read hundreds of posts of alliance players demanding the big bomb this ship in northrend carried to be dropped on some horde target.

  7. #287
    But there is a difference between Garrosh and Sylvanas!

    It has taken years for Garrosh to become the stupid warmonger his father was. Sylvanas, on the other hand, has taken the Lich King's role right after his defeat!
    English is not my first language, feel free to correct any mistake I may make.

  8. #288
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    Well that depends on what side you see yourself. I don't think the horde has that much of a problem with bombing Threamore. It spared the life of horde soldiers and was an effective way to neutralize the threat Threramore posed. And Southshore.. well it's the horde conquering land. Nothing wrong with that either.
    But part of the Horde do have a problem with it in much the same way I do, that being the targets and the scale. The same applies with Southshore.
    But you're point about conquering land is questionable. How can conquest for the sake of conquest be good? Regardless of what misguided reasons Garrosh or Sylvanas may have you've got to at least realise that it's not a good thing?

    If you ask me Sylvanas' and the Forsaken's storyline has bitten off far more than it can chew as I feel there's a very good chance it will not be resolved accordingly if at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    The alliance sees it differently, naturally. But if the night elves dropped some bomb on Splintertree, would you be up in arms about it ? Probably not i guess. I've read hundreds of posts of alliance players demanding the big bomb this ship in northrend carried to be dropped on some horde target.
    Ofcourse I'd be up in arms if the Alliance did something that horrendous. Why wouldn't I be? Those people suggesting the use of the bomb on anything but soldiers are just idiots on the other hand.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-02-01 at 01:38 PM.

  9. #289
    Pandaren Monk Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post

    You still think there will be a WC4, that's cute.
    Unless you have proof that there isnt going to be then I can keep dreaming

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Unless you have proof that there isnt going to be then I can keep dreaming
    Lorewise, WoW is WC4 :P
    It's weird to have two games with the same lore, or you'd have two games with contradicting lore.

    If they ever bring out Warcraft, it'd have a different name and no number :P

  11. #291
    Sylvanas is being saved for later. I always thought, since she seems to be becoming a lich queen of some sorts, that she could be used to advance the plot if they revamp Northrend someday. Has she even appeared in the lore since the shattering? If not, then she can be placed in the between in the 1-60 leveling but before 80-85 leveling.

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Lorewise, WoW is WC4 :P
    It's weird to have two games with the same lore, or you'd have two games with contradicting lore.

    If they ever bring out Warcraft, it'd have a different name and no number :P
    Actually fan theory is WC4 will be a prequel, showing the troll wars against the Aqir, against Strom, Mogu against Mantid maybe, etc...
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  13. #293
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Actually fan theory is WC4 will be a prequel, showing the troll wars against the Aqir, against Strom, Mogu against Mantid maybe, etc...
    those are all different time periods though. The Troll Wars with Quel'thalas and Strom are 2800 years ago, the Mogu and Mantid are at least 10k years ago, and I think Troll/Aqir is over 10k years as well
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  14. #294
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    those are all different time periods though. The Troll Wars with Quel'thalas and Strom are 2800 years ago, the Mogu and Mantid are at least 10k years ago, and I think Troll/Aqir is over 10k years as well
    So? Who says any of the campaigns actually have to be connected.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  15. #295
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    So? Who says any of the campaigns actually have to be connected.
    'twould be weird to have a non-connected set of campaigns in a game, that's all. IMO the best way they could do it would be to come up with some reason to set an expansion within the Caverns of Time, with an amalgamation of time periods on one continent. So the zones would be like

    Arathi, 2800 years ago
    Silithus, during the Troll/Aqir wars
    On the Banks of the Well, 15,000 years ago (or whenever the change happened)
    etc.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  16. #296
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    'twould be weird to have a non-connected set of campaigns in a game, that's all. IMO the best way they could do it would be to come up with some reason to set an expansion within the Caverns of Time, with an amalgamation of time periods on one continent. So the zones would be like

    Arathi, 2800 years ago
    Silithus, during the Troll/Aqir wars
    On the Banks of the Well, 15,000 years ago (or whenever the change happened)
    etc.
    ... Zones?

    Wtf I'm talking about an RTS not an MMO

    WC4 not a wow expansion.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  17. #297
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    ... Zones?

    Wtf I'm talking about an RTS not an MMO

    WC4 not a wow expansion.
    Isn't that what he was saying?
    WC4 campaigns, if played in the same age as WoW, should have an effect on each other.

    It would be weird to play a WC4-campaign where you kill a character that stays alive in WoW.

  18. #298
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Isn't that what he was saying?
    WC4 campaigns, if played in the same age as WoW, should have an effect on each other.

    It would be weird to play a WC4-campaign where you kill a character that stays alive in WoW.
    His wording makes it sound like an MMO, how would you have a bunch of timezones on one continent in an RTS? It doesn't make any sense.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    ... Zones?

    Wtf I'm talking about an RTS not an MMO

    WC4 not a wow expansion.
    Did you never play WC3 TFT the orc campaign? (With rexxar?)

  20. #300
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Did you never play WC3 TFT the orc campaign? (With rexxar?)
    Yeah but that wasn't a traditional campaign, no real basebuilding except for some of the fights with proudmoore, it functioned very much like wow, you didn't have an army (unless you bought mercenaries), and if it were a 'caverns of time' thing then you wouldn't have multiple timezones on one continent... you'd just go through the caverns
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

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