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  1. #1

    Heroic Protectors

    Hey everyone, we're having trouble with interrupts on the water bolts when rotating dps for stacks of the buff.

    Our Comp: (1 tank, 2 heal)
    Prot Warrior
    Ret Paladin
    Frost DK
    Rogue
    Hunter
    Mage
    Shadow Priest
    Feral DPS Druid
    Holy Paladin
    Mistweaver Monk

    We're currently rotating 3 groups of dps (Mage+Druid, Rogue+Hunter, DK+Shadow Priest) each getting 3 stacks per rotation. Any help with rotations on gaining stacks and interrupting?

    Ideally we will have our Elemental shaman instead of ret paladin, but at this point we have no choice.
    Last edited by Levictus; 2013-01-03 at 04:53 AM.

  2. #2
    High Overlord
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    Interrupts + stacks shouldn't be an issue. Your ranged should move away when they're not wanting stacks and your melee be at max melee range, they'll be closest to the adds when they die naturally.

  3. #3
    Change your rotation order:

    Grp 1 - 4 stacks. This is the add killing group.
    Grp 2 - 6 stacks. Tank and highest melee dps.
    Grp 3 - 6 stacks. Next two highest dps, melee or ranged.
    Grp 4 - 6 stacks, rest of the dps.

    Refresh stacks by 1 as needed to maintain buff.

    Interrupts - Prot warrior, Ret Paladin, Frost DK on water bolts. Rogue on Lightning Bolt. Move the boss accordingly so your melee group can still get interrupts while also gaining stacks.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    Change your rotation order:

    Grp 1 - 4 stacks. This is the add killing group.
    Grp 2 - 6 stacks. Tank and highest melee dps.
    Grp 3 - 6 stacks. Next two highest dps, melee or ranged.
    Grp 4 - 6 stacks, rest of the dps.

    Refresh stacks by 1 as needed to maintain buff.

    Interrupts - Prot warrior, Ret Paladin, Frost DK on water bolts. Rogue on Lightning Bolt. Move the boss accordingly so your melee group can still get interrupts while also gaining stacks.
    Doesn't that just make if needlessly complicated to refresh stacks when the encounter starts getting more fast-paced? having to refresh each group with 1 stack every round of adds, making people run back and forth.
    We usually do 3-3-3-6-6-6-8-8-8-3-9-9-9-9 - 3x groups stacking 3, 6, 8, then fourth group stacking 3, then everything to 9. By then, we're onto Asani, and all we need is for the healers / tank to stand closest to adds while ranged kills them, and melee burns boss.

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk
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    We went for a simple approach for add stacks when we killed it over a month ago.

    3 stacks on the add killing group > FFA essentially.

    The people who killed the adds still kill adds, they just do it from the side so the rest of the range/melee are getting stacks. People refresh when they have 30-40 seconds left during P2. This usually equates to everybody entering P3 with 6+ stacks. If someone has 9 stacks they just make sure they are positioned such that if an add dies it won't go to them. Positioning in the last phase is basically people who little stacks or zero stacks (like healers) protecting those that could essentially blow up the raid.

    We tried groups and yes it's easy but we run with 4 melee and it really doesn't matter how you distribute the buffs as long as your DPS are getting stacks and none of them are falling off for the first 2/3 of the encounter.

    Have 3 people on water bolt, and when the boss hits ~35% or so take DPS off adds and burn the boss. He should die before the fifth add hits him.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Doesn't that just make if needlessly complicated to refresh stacks when the encounter starts getting more fast-paced? having to refresh each group with 1 stack every round of adds, making people run back and forth.
    We usually do 3-3-3-6-6-6-8-8-8-3-9-9-9-9 - 3x groups stacking 3, 6, 8, then fourth group stacking 3, then everything to 9. By then, we're onto Asani, and all we need is for the healers / tank to stand closest to adds while ranged kills them, and melee burns boss.
    Not at all. The buff is a 2 min buff. They only refresh 1 stack when needed, and we always have a specific stack point. Any moving done is literally like 5 feet tops. There are many ways to do it, just found this way the easiest. The tank does so much dmg due to vengeance, giving him stacks is a priority.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    Not at all. The buff is a 2 min buff. They only refresh 1 stack when needed, and we always have a specific stack point. Any moving done is literally like 5 feet tops. There are many ways to do it, just found this way the easiest. The tank does so much dmg due to vengeance, giving him stacks is a priority.
    Might be because it's easier to organise in a 10 man, then, but in 25, I'm sure that someone would end up getting hit - we need very strict "rotations", can't just "free for all"-it, as so many stacks are going out :/. Guess it also depends largely on your raids ability to adapt.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Where do you stack Genshin? Is there a video?

  9. #9
    Instead of making another topic (which I see happen a lot) I thought I'd post in this one.


    We just started progressing on H protectors and I feel that we aren't killing Kaolan fast enough. What would be a good time to kill him? Right now we are clocking in at around a little over 5 minutes and literally everybody has touch of sha at this point. I feel that we should be killing him faster is all. Thanks!

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Instead of making another topic (which I see happen a lot) I thought I'd post in this one.


    We just started progressing on H protectors and I feel that we aren't killing Kaolan fast enough. What would be a good time to kill him? Right now we are clocking in at around a little over 5 minutes and literally everybody has touch of sha at this point. I feel that we should be killing him faster is all. Thanks!
    Adds should spawn at the same time on both 10 and 25 - using the above mentioned stacking tactic, Kaolan usually dies right after group 2 gets 6 stacks. So 15 adds in. We have it on farm now, though, and a bit better dps than when we killed it first time - which means that, realisticly, you can get away with killing him when 18 adds have gone out and still meet the enrage.
    Are your raid stacking up on top of kaolan and taking advantage of the cleansing waters buff? Dispell it from kaolan, and let it sit on your raid - will have everyone take 3% of their health as healing every 3 secs, and recieve 50% more healing.

  11. #11
    For 10 man raid, is it best to have the same 2 people killing the add for entire fight, or should the people rotating for stacks be the ones killing the add?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Where do you stack Genshin? Is there a video?
    Don't have a video handy, but looking at the platform, our stack spot is literally the edge of the middle ring on Lei Shei sides. The bosses are tanked inside the ring near that edge. Everyone but the 2 add killers are stacked on top of the bosses to get Cleansing Waters buff. People just move 5 feet to get their stacks, then move back to other side when not getting them. Melee are still DPS'ng the boss the entire time while maintaining interrupt rotations.

    Ripperman - Yes, same 2 people kill the add. Dot classes are perfect as they can keep dots on boss while killing adds.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  13. #13
    thanks Genshin, and how would you manage stacks on those 2 dps killing the adds. I would assume they would gain 3 stacks at beginning then just refresh as fight progresses?

  14. #14
    Thanks for all the info, i'll be relaying this to my guild and we'll see what sort of progress we can make tonight!

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk
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    Yes get stacks are you add killers and then have them refresh as the fight goes on.

  16. #16
    We are a ten man group and having trouble on interupts would like help on suggestions for our comp
    Blood dk
    WW Monk
    Disc priest
    MW monk
    Balance Druid
    BM Hunter
    Enhancement shaman
    Affliction lock
    Fire Mage
    Elemental Shaman

    and also who would be best in your opinion to be on add duty

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Riemu2k3's Avatar
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    Just to clarify some mechanics

    - Water Bolt: It splashes, but you still stack up because it should be like 90% interrupted anyways and puddle heal > splash damage if it gets through?
    - Lightning Bolt: It does not splash?
    - Prison: Do you have to move out of the raid? Or does it not matter? Can't really tell from the dungeon journal, we always move out or aren't stacked at all on nhc

    bloodlust at about 30-50% kaelon to push kaelon sooner or last phase to burn asani with stacks?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemu2k3 View Post
    Just to clarify some mechanics

    - Water Bolt: It splashes, but you still stack up because it should be like 90% interrupted anyways and puddle heal > splash damage if it gets through?
    - Lightning Bolt: It does not splash?
    - Prison: Do you have to move out of the raid? Or does it not matter? Can't really tell from the dungeon journal, we always move out or aren't stacked at all on nhc

    bloodlust at about 30-50% kaelon to push kaelon sooner or last phase to burn asani with stacks?
    You should have an interrupt rotation for water bolt (we have 3 people assigned to interrupt it), it does splash damage. Lightning bolt should be interrupted if all the other people can handle interrupting water bolt and there are some left over. With the prison it's best just to run out because it ticks for 100k and standing in the raid with that is a no no. Sometimes the healers can get the dispel off before the tick happens, but if there is a healer in the prison you will have the dps in the other one take some ticks.
    Quote Originally Posted by ripperman View Post
    We are a ten man group and having trouble on interupts would like help on suggestions for our comp
    Blood dk
    WW Monk
    Disc priest
    MW monk
    Balance Druid
    BM Hunter
    Enhancement shaman
    Affliction lock
    Fire Mage
    Elemental Shaman

    and also who would be best in your opinion to be on add duty
    First, tell your hunter to go survival, hes not doing the raid any good as BM since his pet doesn't benefit from the damage buff. You are getting ~8.5% per stack with the damage buff as SV and only ~5% with BM. So immediately that closes the gap between the two and furthers it even more with every stack. He should either be using fervor or ToTH instead of dire beast since dire beast doesn't scale with the damage buff. Fervor is simming slightly higher for me.

    The two shaman and the tank can handle all the interrupts on the water guy I believe. You can't have the hunter on asani just for safety reasons since his interrupt CD is sketchy. From my experience, most of the time it was at the last second or it came off CD when he was done casting it. From our attempts 3 people on interrupts was just fine. Although we haven't killed it we've wiped at ~20% on the last guy then we had to call it for the night. All the other dps have to use their interrupts on regail to reduce damage (Eg: ww monk, hunter etc.). If no one interrupts him he just spam casts lightning bolt. You also have to have an interrupt after you kill kaolan every time when the corrupted waters spawn ready to go because he will not only spam cast it, but he will spam cast it with a ~1.1 second cast time and if you don't have an interrupt someone may die. Also, I'm not sure who is on dispels, but I (a hunter) glyphed my tranq shot not to cost anything and I could dispel Cleansing Waters whenever it was up on the boss we were focusing. The shaman (both of them) can most definitely get the dispel too, but their dispel is a 1.5 second GCD while a hunters is only 1. So I'd suggest you get your hunter to dispel because it takes less time and its free compared to the shaman's.

    Have your affliction lock and your boomkin on add duty. They are the only dot classes in the raid that can keep their dots on the boss and the adds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Adds should spawn at the same time on both 10 and 25 - using the above mentioned stacking tactic, Kaolan usually dies right after group 2 gets 6 stacks. So 15 adds in. We have it on farm now, though, and a bit better dps than when we killed it first time - which means that, realisticly, you can get away with killing him when 18 adds have gone out and still meet the enrage.
    Are your raid stacking up on top of kaolan and taking advantage of the cleansing waters buff? Dispell it from kaolan, and let it sit on your raid - will have everyone take 3% of their health as healing every 3 secs, and recieve 50% more healing.
    Yeah we went back in and took advantage of the cleansing waters and changed our tactic and kaolan died about a minute faster.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-01-04 at 10:11 AM.

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  19. #19
    I had a question about a different 10man raid.

    We have available:

    DK (tank or dps)
    Monk (tank or dps)

    Hunter, Shaman x2(healer or dps), Warlock, Mage, Priest x2 (dps or healers)

    Holy Pally

    At the moment our main issue seems to be the adds once Kaolan is dead, they come so quickly and outstrip the cooldown of the glyphed warlock slow... I keep tossing around the idea of putting the hunter on it full time (50% slow + trap) or some other solution, but I'm really not sure what's best in general at this point. I keep thinking we need a 3rd dps to help out on adds some too mid Regail and for Asani.

    What combo of priest, paladin, or shaman healers do you think are best for 10man 2 healing :??

    I would appreciate any feedback on how you would best setup out raid on this. Thanks very much in advance.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Justusy View Post
    I had a question about a different 10man raid.

    We have available:

    DK (tank or dps)
    Monk (tank or dps)

    Hunter, Shaman x2(healer or dps), Warlock, Mage, Priest x2 (dps or healers)

    Holy Pally

    At the moment our main issue seems to be the adds once Kaolan is dead, they come so quickly and outstrip the cooldown of the glyphed warlock slow... I keep tossing around the idea of putting the hunter on it full time (50% slow + trap) or some other solution, but I'm really not sure what's best in general at this point. I keep thinking we need a 3rd dps to help out on adds some too mid Regail and for Asani.

    What combo of priest, paladin, or shaman healers do you think are best for 10man 2 healing :??

    I would appreciate any feedback on how you would best setup out raid on this. Thanks very much in advance.
    Well, if the priest is disc, you want to use priest+shaman for healing it. In reality, if your paladin is your best healer, use him + either of the other two. But taking advantage of rapture + manatide for infinite mana on the disc priest is a big plus here (along with letting the disc priest get stacks = stronger atonement healing, as you're gonna have to stack on either your tank or a healer before P3).

    Your warlock SHOULD be able to slow the adds untill the last protector. Atleast ours was managing.
    Your mage is a much better choise for slowing adds than a hunter. A hunter has to spend a GBC every 5 seconds to keep an add slowed, a mage every 15 seconds (or not at all if he's arcane, which he should be).
    Also, hunter traps are aids. The add will be slowed, and unable to be slowed by other stuff like the Mage's slow while on the patch (as the longest duration slow always persists over shorter durations, and the patch is an "infinite" slow debuff), but as soon as it leaves the ice patch, it'll speed up and need an immediate slow. It's just not worth it.

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