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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoobydew View Post
    You're interpreting these numbers completely wrong. Stone guard is generally the first heroic fight that anyone is going to try, thus the wipes are going to be higher. Very large number of guilds pulling it that don't know what they're doing. Protectors HM is different because only 16/16H guilds (in most cases) are going for this fight on Heroic Elite, and from what I've heard it's not much harder than regular Heroic Protectors. I could keep going on, but you get where I'm going with this.
    I believe that most people dont argue about the numbers, he stated that this list is the way to progress. Meaning that people should start with garalon and ambershaper heroic then feng etc.

    Most guilds go for stone guard feng garalai elegon bladelord. Beyond this point its either Spirit Kings WotE Windlord or garalon. I hardly think any guild would say" Hey we got 5/16 hc lets do protectors elite hc"

  2. #22
    huh.... i came into this thread to wipe some of my experience onw aht i think its the hardest since its "OFFICIAL" thread lol but ooooooo dear god that list is sooo wrong XD

  3. #23
    This can not be used as a valid kill order because the samples are skewed.
    They are interesting numbers, nonetheless.

  4. #24
    The Patient
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    It does not take into account for simple things like people still being in blues when they started MVS HC and on top of that its the first HC encounters of this expansion, therefore, wipes, wipes,wipes.
    Last edited by Kadde111; 2013-01-30 at 10:21 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    Maybe thats the reason why he only has 3hcs,cause now they are trying Ambershaper
    ahahahaha xD

  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    All those bosses are bosses easy to kill ON FARM... Which represents nothing of the actual difficulty of the boss.
    Got questions about Fire mages or want your logs analyzed? Feel free to PM me.

    Dutchmagoz - 14/14HC world 90 - 3 days/week.

    Recruiting for Mythic raiding! Click or add Dutchiee#2877

  7. #27
    So protectors normal is a lot harder than heroic?

    Are you trolling or do you really believe the garbage you compiled?

  8. #28
    Field Marshal Bizley's Avatar
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    I think more accurate is (from easiest):

    1. Stone Guard
    2. Feng the Accursed
    3. Gara'jal the Spiritbinder
    4. Elegon
    5. Blade Lord Ta'yak
    6. Four Kings
    7. Wind Lord Mel'jarak
    8. Garalon
    9. Will of the Emperor
    10. Imperial Vizier Zor'lok
    11. Lei Shi
    12. Amber-Shaper Un'sok
    13. Protectors of the Endless
    14. Grand Empress Shek'zeer
    15. Tsulong
    16. Sha of Fear

    Based on number of guilds that manage to kill these.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bizley View Post
    I think more accurate is (from easiest):

    1. Stone Guard
    2. Feng the Accursed
    3. Gara'jal the Spiritbinder
    4. Elegon
    5. Blade Lord Ta'yak
    6. Four Kings
    7. Wind Lord Mel'jarak
    8. Garalon
    9. Will of the Emperor
    10. Imperial Vizier Zor'lok
    11. Lei Shi
    12. Amber-Shaper Un'sok
    13. Protectors of the Endless
    14. Grand Empress Shek'zeer
    15. Tsulong
    16. Sha of Fear

    Based on number of guilds that manage to kill these.
    Agree 100%. As far as getting the first kill goes. Some of the bosses are much easier to repeat kills. Bosses that involve RNG (Tsulong/Amber-Shaper) are much harder on farm then straight forward bosses like Sha and Protectors.

  10. #30
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Delete thread please mod. This is so so misguided.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    This list is dogpoop. My favorite part is Protectors hardmode is easier than Protectors normal mode!
    That's actually true though.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiqjaq View Post
    That's actually true though.
    This is a list of heroic encounter's, Heroic Elite>Heroic Normal.

    List is bs anyways

  13. #33
    High Overlord Reckles's Avatar
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    I appreciate all the ...ahem...constructive criticism. To be clear, this is not a list I created, but one the raiding community did. While I think that the traditional "start in MSV" would be a better way to go (that's what we're doing), the most reliable statistic for how easy a boss is, is how long you wipe on it before you kill it. Go here on worldoflogs and click on 10H.

    To clarify further:
    People have killed 10H Amber Shaper Unsok 3,300 times and wiped on him 8,400 times (28%). While Blade Lord Tayak has been killed 16,000 times, we have all wiped 135,000 times (10.7%).

    While not 100% perfect, it is enough data to be statistically significant, and a difference of almost 20% kill rate should be considered when progressing.

    If your guild is scared of any particular fight, or think another strategy is better, go for it. This just happens to be the ACTUAL DATA for what people wipe on less often. There are many things to consider (gear level, insignificant results, farm kills, etc) but I'm not talking about opinions. If you would like to say "this list is wrong because average dps+hps required for a kill is the most important factor" then feel free. For instance, Bizley said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bizley View Post
    I think more accurate is (from easiest):
    ....
    Based on number of guilds that manage to kill these.
    This is a good list too and should be considered. However, number of kills doesn't take into account that many many fewer people have attempted HoF heroic bosses. This list is then multiplying mine by the number of attempts for each. Ease x Attempts = Kills. Putting together a list of Kills is related to ease of killing, but it is wrong since it's much faster to just look at a ranking of Ease, which is available. Thanks for your input though.
    Last edited by Reckles; 2013-01-30 at 02:43 PM.

  14. #34
    Just go by WowProgress' Completion.

    Heroic Mogu'shan Vaults

    H: Stone Guard: 11217 (28.77%)
    H: Feng the Accursed: 9440 (24.21%)
    H: Gara'jal the Spiritbinder: 8162 (20.93%)
    H: Four Kings: 4717 (12.10%)
    H: Elegon: 6941 (17.80%)
    H: Will of the Emperor: 2991 (7.67%)

    Heroic Heart of Fear
    H: Imperial Vizier Zor'lok: 1753 (4.50%)
    H: Blade Lord Ta'yak: 5092 (13.06%)
    H: Garalon: 3169 (8.13%)
    H: Wind Lord Mel'jarak: 3824 (9.81%)
    H: Amber-Shaper Un'sok: 1407 (3.61%)
    H: Grand Empress Shek'zeer: 829 (2.13%)

    Heroic Terrace of Endless Spring
    H: Protectors of the Endless: 832 (2.13%)
    H: Tsulong: 656 (1.68%)
    H: Lei Shi: 1509 (3.87%)
    H: Sha of Fear: 299 (0.77%)

  15. #35
    High Overlord Reckles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visize View Post
    Just go by WowProgress' Completion.

    Heroic Mogu'shan Vaults

    H: Stone Guard: 11217 (28.77%)
    H: Feng the Accursed: 9440 (24.21%)
    H: Gara'jal the Spiritbinder: 8162 (20.93%)
    H: Four Kings: 4717 (12.10%)
    H: Elegon: 6941 (17.80%)
    H: Will of the Emperor: 2991 (7.67%)

    Heroic Heart of Fear
    H: Imperial Vizier Zor'lok: 1753 (4.50%)
    H: Blade Lord Ta'yak: 5092 (13.06%)
    H: Garalon: 3169 (8.13%)
    H: Wind Lord Mel'jarak: 3824 (9.81%)
    H: Amber-Shaper Un'sok: 1407 (3.61%)
    H: Grand Empress Shek'zeer: 829 (2.13%)

    Heroic Terrace of Endless Spring
    H: Protectors of the Endless: 832 (2.13%)
    H: Tsulong: 656 (1.68%)
    H: Lei Shi: 1509 (3.87%)
    H: Sha of Fear: 299 (0.77%)
    *Edit: deleting my snarky comment...ok, so why do you think % of guild's that complete a boss is more accurate than kill ratio, since many guild's haven't attempted HoF and Terrace?
    Last edited by Reckles; 2013-01-30 at 02:52 PM.

  16. #36
    this list, it seems to be wrong :O!

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Reckles View Post
    I appreciate all the ...ahem...constructive criticism. To be clear, this is not a list I created, but one the raiding community did. While I think that the traditional "start in MSV" would be a better way to go (that's what we're doing), the most reliable statistic for how easy a boss is, is how long you wipe on it before you kill it. Go here on worldoflogs and click on 10H.
    no, your list is terrible and doesn't mean anything in regards to difficulty.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    This list is dogpoop. My favorite part is Protectors hardmode is easier than Protectors normal mode!
    exactly what i thought o.O

  19. #39
    High Overlord Reckles's Avatar
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    Bals, you're very knowledgable, and I usually trust your advice. But please explain why. Are you suggesting there is a better metric than wipe rate?

    Also, updated the original post with a more thorough explanation.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Reckles View Post
    People have killed 10H Amber Shaper Unsok 3,300 times and wiped on him 8,400 times (28%).
    A lot of heroic attempts on amber shaper get flagged as normal by world of logs. Likewise Garalon. Your statistics are based on flawed data, in addition to the myriad other flaws with this approach.

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