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  1. #1
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    Are the D3 Devs Just Noobs Compared to WoW/Sc2 Devs?

    Usually when there's a problem in WoW/SC2, it's quickly rectified (if it's an actual issue and not just people here and there crying). Sometimes it takes a while for it to be fully fixed, but changes I've seen are much swifter than from the D3 dev team.

    Nearly every change recently made by the D3 dev team has been beyond controversial or way past the expected time, and it leads me to think they are incredibly inexperienced compared to the other game divisions.

    Is this valid? Is the team in over their heads trying to please an extremely aggressive AAA fanbase?

    It honestly boggles my mind that a game that's likely been in development since like.... 2005/2006 has so many glaring issues, that are only going to begin to be fixed in the expansion. I don't want to turn this into a QQ fest about every issue in D3 but really, they seem like they are clueless compared to the quality developers working on WoW.

    And certainly extra clueless when compared to the Tier 1 team working on Titan, for sure.

  2. #2
    I dont see any glaring issues with D3. I think that outside of PvP the devs have been doing a fine job. I also think that WoW is a service that needs to be updated frequently so obviously alot more work is put into it. SC2 is a pretty basic game. Theres no new innovations they stuck to the formula of the other games. Pretty hard to screw up when you just copy and paste.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    I don't want to turn this into a QQ fest about every issue in D3 but really, they seem like they are clueless compared to the quality developers working on WoW.

    And certainly extra clueless when compared to the Tier 1 team working on Titan, for sure.
    You really don't have a clue how Blizzard works.
    They got ONE team of developers that gets send around to the department that needs them atm.

    Also, on the issue of "problems in WoW get fixed soon"... Rogue Vanish in PvP/Arena comes to mind, go to the Rogue Forums here and ask if that was fixed quickly...
    Not a native english speaker. Spelling and grammar errors may occur no matter how hard i try to avoid them. Deal with it.

  4. #4
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    You really don't have a clue how Blizzard works.
    They got ONE team of developers that gets send around to the department that needs them atm.
    Uh, no, you fail. That's not how it is at all. They have departments that specialize in MMOs, RPGs, and RTs. They tried to do what you just said, sending Jay Wilson from the RTS team onto D3 and guess what happened? He stepped down as Game Director.

    That's why they haven't even begun Warcraft 4 yet. Not because of some trivial lore reason, but because the team that would actually produce the game is still working on SC2 expansions.

    It's easy to move people from WoW -> Titan because they are the same genre.

    I dont see any glaring issues with D3.
    LMAO

    Oh god my sides!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    sending Jay Wilson from the RTS team onto D3 and guess what happened? He stepped down as Game Director.


    LMAO

    Oh god my sides!
    He didn't step down because the game went bad or anything, but because he have worked on diablo in seven years and wanna do something else. I can totally understand that, i wouldn't sit and work on the same project for years and years..

    Also it just seems like you don't like how d3 is and is trying to blame it on the devs doing a bad job, the game is fine and they are doing a good job on making it better, it's just you who don't like the game

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    Nearly every change recently made by the D3 dev team has been beyond controversial or way past the expected time, and it leads me to think they are incredibly inexperienced compared to the other game divisions.

    .
    Both patches 1.04 and 1.05 were rather well received within a VERY critical complainers forum community.

    So I have no clue what you talk about.

    Patch 1.07 takes a little longer yes, but my guess is that the D3 team needs to be seen in the bigger policy of Blizzard operations.

    Patch 1.07 can ONLY be launched after WOW's 5.2 clearly and its PvP system needs to wait after the launch of Blizzard's biggest esports game yet (Blizzard ALL stars).

    So

    1. Your complaint is not what the ciritical community thought about patches 1.04 and patches 1.05 (they made the game better).
    2. Diablo 3 team is integrated within a bigger Blizzard policy of things to do.
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-01-31 at 10:55 AM.

  7. #7
    Immortal Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    Usually when there's a problem in WoW/SC2, it's quickly rectified (if it's an actual issue and not just people here and there crying). Sometimes it takes a while for it to be fully fixed, but changes I've seen are much swifter than from the D3 dev team.

    Nearly every change recently made by the D3 dev team has been beyond controversial or way past the expected time, and it leads me to think they are incredibly inexperienced compared to the other game divisions.

    Is this valid? Is the team in over their heads trying to please an extremely aggressive AAA fanbase?

    It honestly boggles my mind that a game that's likely been in development since like.... 2005/2006 has so many glaring issues, that are only going to begin to be fixed in the expansion. I don't want to turn this into a QQ fest about every issue in D3 but really, they seem like they are clueless compared to the quality developers working on WoW.

    And certainly extra clueless when compared to the Tier 1 team working on Titan, for sure.
    If they hadn't put in the AH and the RMAH, D3 would've been much better.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    If they hadn't put in the AH and the RMAH, D3 would've been much better.
    In your opinion...

    I kind of like being able to buy / sell upgrades easily / not have to join some 3rd party forum to arrange deals.

  9. #9
    It's actually quite simple,

    nobody in charge at Blizzard truly understands the success of their own products.

    Not in the case of WoW and especially not in the case of Diablo III, which has become glaringly obvious. Starcraft II proves to be an exception afaik.

    Blizzard designers think they understand, but they don't really.

    That's why Diablo III had had such a tedious and poorly managed development period with multiple reiterations and scrapping of game-mechanics.

  10. #10
    The biggest problem of D3 was community. They hyped it over many many years, i wasn't surprised that it was flop, i even said it on different forum two days before release and got banned for Flamebating. Current gaming communities are just horrible, last two big MMOs (GW2 and SWToR) and D3 showed what has showed how obnoxious today's "player" is.
    Ponies are for little girls, deal with it.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
    It's actually quite simple,

    nobody in charge at Blizzard truly understands the success of their own products.

    Not in the case of WoW and especially not in the case of Diablo III, which has become glaringly obvious. Starcraft II proves to be an exception afaik.

    Blizzard designers think they understand, but they don't really.

    That's why Diablo III had had such a tedious and poorly managed development period with multiple reiterations and scrapping of game-mechanics.
    Sc2 is not the exception I feel. Competitive play is not what made sc2 a success but they are banking that it will. In any event you are correct although a bit incomplete. In their quest to fix what didn't work, their iterative design process removed what DID work. It's evidenced by the Jay Wilson statement that my fond memories of D2 are rose colored and nostalgic. It doesn't actually say I'm wrong and those good times I had in diablo were just an illusion, instead it says they are right and we should be thankful. It's been their attitude throughout this entire fucking fiasco.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Anjerith's Avatar
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    The problem isn't the game, it's the community.

    The problem with the community isn't the Diablo community, it's the WoW community that built up over the years, far far more of these guys than there are Diablo fans. I'm sorry but it's true.

    But that leads me to the most important thing;

    The problem isn't the WoW community, its the Vocal Minority in the WoW community.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  13. #13
    This whole community is at fault thing is such a lame fucking cop out. God I wish I could run a business with customers as blindly loyal and devoted as Biizzard customers. First of all the "community" is such a diverse fucking group of players that pining the failure of d3 on them is a fucking JOKE. Second of all elements of the community SCREAMED their guts out at Blizzard during the beta for all kinds of horse crap they saw in the game. The "vocal minority" as they are being characterized tried to point out the flaws in the game but got shouted down by the church of Blizzard and it's blue priests and their minions.

    D3 is at best an okay game. It's failure and shortcomings are many. It is not the communities fault that the game is sub par and the only bad part of the community imo is the group that constantly sticks up for them and can't accept that MAYBE JUST MAYBE Blizzard doesn't bat 1000 every time, D3 has significant short comings and the "community" is not a vocal minority.

    The most daming thing I can say about the community and it's relationship with the game is that normally if one were to troll a games website one would be extremely critical, almost comically so about the games development and features. D3 is so bad on so many levels that anybody who trolled the game would get drowned out by the sea of angry voices on the forums who are ACTUALLY upset with the game. In response to this the proper way to troll for the game is to declare your undying love and support for the game and it's numerous benefits and positives. A praise troll.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-01-31 at 07:37 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    This whole community is at fault thing is such a lame fucking cop out. God I wish I could run a business with customers as blindly loyal and devoted as Biizzard customers. First of all the "community" is such a diverse fucking group of players that pining the failure of d3 on them is a fucking JOKE. Second of all elements of the community SCREAMED their guts out at Blizzard during the beta for all kinds of horse crap they saw in the game. The "vocal minority" as they are being characterized tried to point out the flaws in the game but got shouted down by the church of Blizzard and it's blue priests and their minions.

    D3 is at best an okay game. It's failure and shortcomings are many. It is not the communities fault that the game is sub par and the only bad part of the community imo is the group that constantly sticks up for them and can't accept that MAYBE JUST MAYBE Blizzard doesn't bat 1000 every time, D3 has significant short comings and the "community" is not a vocal minority.

    The most daming thing I can say about the community and it's relationship with the game is that normally if one were to troll a games website one would be extremely critical, almost comically so about the games development and features. D3 is so bad on so many levels that anybody who trolled the game would get drowned out by the sea of angry voices on the forums who are ACTUALLY upset with the game. In response to this the proper way to troll for the game is to declare your undying love and support for the game and it's numerous benefits and positives. A praise troll.
    3430 negative posts about Blizzard (and ALL of its games) in one year on just ONE forum with just one avatar makes me wonder what drives you.

    So tell me: what makes you think you ARE a majority. In fact I think that 200 people like you making up 700.000 yearly posts about how "bad" Blizzard became is very interesting as a social study. I don't think that's a majority at all really...

    BTW: typical remarks overall: I quote : "It's failure and shortcomings are many" that's a free statement without ANY foundation at all.

    Tell me for once in a 2 page post why you would want to post 3500 short messages of how Blizzard sucks without resorting to these short general comments without touching ANY part except for the general failure part.

    And don't forget I want IN game facts after patch 1.07 for D3 and in game facts for WOW after patch 5.2 ...

    or don't you play the games ?

    100% sure you are not even capable of writing such a note because you really don't play these games at the moment and ... you would get countered by your own facts by telling outdated info, not accurate info, contradicting elements.

    Remember I want IN game facts, not some casual 'X sucks" stuff or "sub par Y". Nor do you need to anker your thoughts on it (like you just did again).
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-01 at 01:06 PM.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster juzalol's Avatar
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    It's exactly the opposite. D3 devs are too professional.

    From a technical point of view the game is amazing. It runs smooth, the combat is fluent and responsive
    and there is nothing really to complain about in that regard.

    The problem is that the way D3 is made is that they devs don't think about what would be cool in a video
    game, but think about what would be cool from a technical point of view. I would guess that the devs who
    are working on Diablo III are significantly older than the ones who made Diablo II back in the day.

    As a framework and a game engine Diablo III is astonishing. As a game it's boring, 1 dimensional and dull. There
    are a ton of developers who could make wonders if they could get their hands on the engine diablo III was built
    on.

  16. #16
    The vast majority of veteran developers at Blizzard are working on Project Titan.


    'nuff said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Then the [MMORPG] genre started attracting more players. These players wanted more of a "game" and less of a "world" [...]

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by juzalol View Post
    It's exactly the opposite. D3 devs are too professional.

    From a technical point of view the game is amazing. It runs smooth, the combat is fluent and responsive
    and there is nothing really to complain about in that regard.

    The problem is that the way D3 is made is that they devs don't think about what would be cool in a video
    game, but think about what would be cool from a technical point of view. I would guess that the devs who
    are working on Diablo III are significantly older than the ones who made Diablo II back in the day.

    As a framework and a game engine Diablo III is astonishing. As a game it's boring, 1 dimensional and dull. There
    are a ton of developers who could make wonders if they could get their hands on the engine diablo III was built
    on.
    I partly agree but I still think that a lot of people play this game on a regular basis. So it must be doing something good.

    The good part is more than its excellent engine too, since evening sessions still show 650+ new public groups forming in EU. And no matter how you turn it, that's still 1/3 of the numbers that were shown past patch 1.03 some 8 months ago ...

    Which is telling people like it (and "some" in the huge sales number of D3 is quite many).

    Diablo's purpose is clear to me: an easy on line grouping game with some solo challenges thrown in and set within a H&S game endlessly beating mobs, elites and bosses. The goal is to better your avatar stats. The story is just a decor. What matters is the smashing of mobs and growing stronger by ANY means.

    As such it IS played many hours by those people who want that.

    Perhaps it was the exact goal of Blizzard. No one wanted to loose WOW subs, no one wanted to get yet another esport game along with SC2 and their DOTA game.



    D3 blends perfectly within the Blizzard stable choices. PVE fast play, no attunements, on line basic trading, gear grind.

    Can play for 15 minutes and leave or return. Burnout ? No need to play it daily not even weekly. But just be sure it sits there on BNet. Always enough players to group with, so... just be sure it is there when you want to have fun smashing mobs.

    I think that was Blizzard's goal. Why do you tink D3 should be played like an MMORPG ?

    I said it many times: D2 was a pre era MMO, D3 is a modern internet version in the post MMO era. As such D3 is even better suited to stand the test of time than many MMO's (too cumbersome, too much attunements needed on those).
    Last edited by BenBos; 2013-02-01 at 01:33 PM.

  18. #18
    I dont like sc2 or wow but do d3. To each is own i guess.

    "The vast majority of veteran developers at Blizzard are working at their own companies"

  19. #19
    I stopped playing since July, when I hit inferno Act 2 and was hit by the brick wall that prevented me from getting the gear I needed to progress.

    There were a lot of major design flaws to the game that were present at launch, so I don't think the community hype was to blame. My first big gripe was the lack of progression at end game, where you are forced to finish the game 3 times before it even starts. Keep in mind, Diablo 2 opened up every accessible skill at lvl 30, and went up to 90+. Level 30 was obtainable in Nightmare. In Diablo 3, you finish Hell to get to unlock all your skill/runes (60) and you have nothing to look forward to other than a gear grind, which also became impossible due to lack of progression and skewed difficulty scaling.

    On top of this, gear was completely random and legendaries were weak, forcing you to play the AH to itemize properly. If there were other avenues of customizing gear stats say through crafting (make reagent components provide X stat, let you farm certain reagents to craft gear with perfect stats that you need) or allow you to upgrade the stats of old gear or even a reforge system to let you get what you need. Being completely random really leaves you with no choice other than blind farming forever.

    A lot of this was fixed later on, but it was too little too late for me.

  20. #20
    D3, I think needs a lot of work. The game mechanics are good, if not great. But end game is ugh at best. Class balance is bad and considering they advertised 4.8 trillion different skill comps. Only of 2 or 3 are viable in mp 10.

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