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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Julian View Post
    This is how I see the country slowly coming too with increased access to guns. While I know by far there are more responsible gun owners than non responsible ones, I just see this turning into the new Romeo & Juliet movie with Leonardo DiCaprio, where things just continue to escalate because no one's smart enough to say "Oh hey...this was all a big misunderstanding!" What we have here is....failure to communicate.
    Because guns are a new invention. And Americans owning guns is a new comcept.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    How often do people use their cars? How often do people use their guns? What are cars designed to do? What are guns designed to do?

    Those are only 4 questions out of over 9000 that set them apart. If you think that comparing guns to cars is valid you aren't thinking logically.
    Yea I have him on Iggy because his numbers are always wrong, he never sources his statements, and he gets extremely offended if you call him on it. It isn't worth wasting my time discussing with him.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    How often do people use their cars? How often do people use their guns? What are cars designed to do? What are guns designed to do?

    Those are only 4 questions out of over 9000 that set them apart. If you think that comparing guns to cars is valid you aren't thinking logically.



    I can't tell if you're serious.
    Guns don't kill people anymore than cars do. It's the people behind both

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 06:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Yea I have him on Iggy because his numbers are always wrong, he never sources his statements, and he gets extremely offended if you call him on it. It isn't worth wasting my time discussing with him.
    My numbers weren't for Texas, but for the us. My mistake, I changed it in the op

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Uschlol View Post
    Guns don't kill people anymore than cars do. It's the people behind both
    Way to give a cop out answer that fails to address the point.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    Way to give a cop out answer that fails to address the point.
    Guns never should have been the point. The man is to blame.

    And to be honest they are nearly a perfect comparison

  6. #186
    Stood in the Fire zerocoolhack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHETERNAL View Post
    In that situation, the chances of the guy's purpose in rolling down his window being taking a shot at the homeowner as he drives away are more than enough to justify firing. I see no issue here. Do not go onto someone else’s property at night and do anything that might be in any way be construed as a threatening or potentially aggressive action otherwise shooting you is entirely justified.
    When one of the pro-gun arguments is that gun related deaths in the US are a small fraction of the total deaths each year you can not then use the argument that he was threatened by a gun. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by zerocoolhack View Post
    When one of the pro-gun arguments is that gun related deaths in the US are a small fraction of the total deaths each year you can not then use the argument that he was threatened by a gun. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
    Ever hear of defensive driving?

  8. #188
    Herald of the Titans Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Socio-economic issues.

    How do we 'solve poverty?' I'm just curious.
    An impossibility that we all need to accept.
    Synek - best rogue in the world


  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Uschlol View Post
    Guns never should have been the point. The man is to blame.

    And to be honest they are nearly a perfect comparison
    Cars are primarily designed as a means of transportation.

    Guns are primarily designed as a weapon to inflict maximum harm on the target.

    Cars kill more people, but are also more prevalent. They are also larger (usually.)

    Again, I'm not for a gun ban, but spouting off random death statistics is meaningless. The fact remains that guns are a tool meant to kill, first and foremost, and they are too often in the hands of people that have no business owning them.

    3DS Friend Code: 0146-9205-4817. Could show as either Chris or Chrysia.

  10. #190
    Stood in the Fire zerocoolhack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uschlol View Post
    Ever hear of defensive driving?
    How do you plan on working degensive driving into this?

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryntrollian View Post
    An impossibility that we all need to accept.
    Most crime is caused by socio-economic issues. I'm completely open to everyone saying 'guns are not the problem' (And they aren't _the_ problem, but they are a facet of the high murder rates in the US) giving us ideas for how to try and fix the actual issues that cause crime beyond so called 'crimes of passion'?

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by palamanian View Post
    That's really unfortunate, certainly being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Hopefully justice is served and he rots in a cell until he's dead.
    There is no justice to be served, he shot someone who willingly trespassed on his property and was completely legal assuming their were private property/ no trespassing signs posted.

    It's no different than you encroaching on property that has beware of dog signs posted everywhere, should your face get ripped off by half a dozen pitbulls because you ignored the warning, it's your fault.

    Besides their could of been other events that gave the owner every right to be paranoid about random people coming onto his property, maybe he owed bad people money or had actually expected bad people were coming after him.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrysia View Post
    Cars are primarily designed as a means of transportation.

    Guns are primarily designed as a weapon to inflict maximum harm on the target.

    Cars kill more people, but are also more prevalent. They are also larger (usually.)

    Again, I'm not for a gun ban, but spouting off random death statistics is meaningless. The fact remains that guns are a tool meant to kill, first and foremost, and they are too often in the hands of people that have no business owning them.
    Actually there are over 300 million firearms in the us. Much more than there are cars on the roads.

    But you keep going back to my point, it's not the tool, but the person using the tool. I think we agree.....

  14. #194
    Stood in the Fire zerocoolhack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    There is no justice to be served, he shot someone who willingly trespassed on his property and was completely legal assuming their were private property/ no trespassing signs posted.

    It's no different than you encroaching on property that has beware of dog signs posted everywhere, should your face get ripped off by half a dozen pitbulls because you ignored the warning, it's your fault.


    Besides their could of been other events that gave the owner every right to be paranoid about random people coming onto his property, maybe he owed bad people money or had actually expected bad people were coming after him.
    Cant use that argument since he has no fence around his property and had zero signs posted.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Socio-economic issues.

    How do we 'solve poverty?' I'm just curious.
    I would say reforming the public education system(K-12) and somehow making college/university cheaper or free all together for people. Then some of these people would have a way out instead of resorting to a life of crime.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by zerocoolhack View Post
    How do you plan on working degensive driving into this?
    Your chances of getting into a car accident a relatively low, but you still take precautions by driving defensively. Much like your chances of being shot by a robber are low, but you should still take precautions

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 06:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zerocoolhack View Post
    Cant use that argument since he has no fence around his property and had zero signs posted.
    Pretty sure the yelling "get off my property!" Will suffice

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 06:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Noobadin View Post
    I would say reforming the public education system(K-12) and somehow making college/university cheaper or free all together for people. Then some of these people would have a way out instead of resorting to a life of crime.
    Let me guess, your 20something and are having to takeout massive loans.....IMO college should be harder and more expensive, weed out the undeserving

  17. #197
    Stood in the Fire zerocoolhack's Avatar
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    Tell me how one can leave a driveway with a bullet in your head?

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Uschlol View Post
    Actually there are over 300 million firearms in the us. Much more than there are cars on the roads.

    But you keep going back to my point, it's not the tool, but the person using the tool. I think we agree.....
    But there are not 300 million guns in use every day, but there are something like 200 million cars in use every day. Even if you wanted to compare them it would fall flat.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    But there are not 300 million guns in use every day, but there are something like 200 million cars in use every day. Even if you wanted to compare them it would fall flat.
    What's in use entail? Taking a gun out and cleaning it? Having it sit in a nightstand? I think you are missing the point....

    Guns are not any more dangerous than your drive to work.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    In this case it is clearly second degree murder, as he backed down and yelled he had no intention to rob him.
    You don't know that, its the group of kids word vs his.

    I mean if you were a elderly man living in an area full of gang activity and your neighbors house had been broken into only weeks before you would be pretty f"ing paranoid about a car full of Latino teenagers who fit the description of gang members (it's not a stereotype the majority of the people in street gangs are indeed either black or LAtino)

    I will admit however that the gun owner did act irresponsibly simply because he made himself the threat before verifying these kids were a threat, he couldn't tell the car was in reverse, he didn't give the offenders an opportunity to explain themselves and he shot to kill not wound.

    Given the guys background I would be hesitant to push criminal charges as he sounds like an upstanding citizen who merely acted rashly, I would take away his guns and declare him unfit to own one due to his age/ lack of judgement but it sounds like he lives in an area where not owning a gun could be very detrimental to his own health, Especially now that this has happened.

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