I was going going to list many reasons but fuck it....to me the game became the McDonalds of MMOs.
I was going going to list many reasons but fuck it....to me the game became the McDonalds of MMOs.
Last I checked only 143 guilds have downed all Heroic bosses.
Heroic modes are there for those who want to accomplish and overcome the hardest challenges in the game.
Challenge Modes are also there, which not a lot of groups have even finished.
SWTOR was not remotely similar to TBC. It had a multitude of problems which were not present in TBC. SWTOR had weird movement, lots of instancing of the world, took 3 instances to move from one planet to another, huge zones with quests sparsely distributed, few people compared to zone size, graphical glitches in the shadows. I did enjoy it for a while, but its several problems put me off eventually.
You state some non-facts and draw conclusions based on your bias. Care to elaborate on what in SWTOR and GW2 were more similar to TBC and not to, say, MOP?
SWTOR went FTP in a year, yet TBC added 3-4 million players over two years. How do you reconcile that FACT with your non-fact based conclusions?
And there you go again. Fautly design decisions. Faulty for who? Why are they faulty? How can they be improved? What are they influencing negatively? Is it really detrimental enough to be called faulty?
Most of the time people create threads complaining about a feature or some change, it's not due to some desire to see the game improve or because they think the feature will become a burden down the road. It's because they hate it and they don't care about anyone who does. They just don't want it there and that's it, screw everyone else. It's the "this is bad because I say so and you should feel bad for liking it/having implemented it" mentality. This very thread was created on a basis that it's the game's fault the player the OP quoted is now "alone", when it's not.
Cata. Cata did everything wrong.
*It was the start of the afking culture by putting instances in hidden or complicated locations.
*Difficulty was all over the map, starting hard, swinging to just annoying, then being a faceroll.
*DS, the year without content. Also the worst designed raid ever.
*Flight destroyed the mystique of the Old World.
*The revamp was hailed as the biggest update ever. Most people sleep-played through it.
*Worgen and Goblin had no role in the game after level 20.
Avatar source: https://twitter.com/frenone
I reconcile those facts with the fact that Wrath peaked the subscribers over 10 million and came towards the 12/13 million Cataclysm had, Wrath being the expansion you "hate" so much just because it added LFG and other "easy" methods to grouping and getting gear that apparently killed or is killing the game.
When I compare SWTOR to TBC or Vanilla WoW, along with Rift (which is MUCH more geared towards the first expansion for WoW and the original game we currently play), it's because it doesn't have the features WoW has currently. WoW evolved, while its competition did not until it was too late.
I am convinced, and this is my opinion, the makers of Rift had the mindset that if they made a game close to Vanilla WoW, they would attract a huge amount of subscribers. That was not the case.
Bioware tried to do something completely unconventional and made its target audience those that wanted a great Single Player story in an MMO. We all see where that went.
I will find you articles that support my statements, and hopefully it will cause that hate you hold so much for WoW, along with your ill will statements to deflate a bit because even though you disdain such a game that you used to play, it had to change due to the market.
Give me a bit because I have class, and I'll find everywhere I've read the Pros and Cons, along with the fact Rift barely holds that many subscribers any longer.
And hopefully after doing so, maybe, just maybe, we can come to some sort of agreement, instead of me obtaining the impression like I'm speaking to a brick wall.
Wow went right not wrong the old days=shit.
SWP - was gated when it came out.
ICC - Was gated when it came out.
TOTC - was gated when it came out.
Kara - was gated behind an attunement quest line. I cannot remember if it required heroic versions of the dungeons being done or not as it was a long time ago. If it required normal dungeons thats one thing but heroic dungeons back then required you to get a certain amount of reputation before being able to enter that dungeon. Thing is to get that rep you farmed the dungeon linked to that reputation.
SSC and TK - required you to kill gruuls/mag and kara if im not mistaken. hyjal and bt required SSC and TK. You could not go to these places right off the bat! (well BT when it came out if you were a hardcore guild you'd be ready to enter when it was released and had the others down before then)
AQ40 was gated behind a server wide war effort system iirc.
there has been a lot of gated content in the game over the years.
Speaking to the overall discussion it's hard to argue Blizzard didn't do most things right. They've maintained a popular product for a number of years because they were willing to evolve. Musicians who release successful albums decade after decade have to change as the times change and they are heralded for it in most cases. Times change and you can either change with them or you become the guy in 2012 sporting a mullet, wearing a members only jacket, blasting Huey Lewis and The News.
Talent trees, and by that you mean 'cookie cutter except for certain bosses' yer that was fun, I liked never really having to change them once they were set, not like now where I've changed 3 or 4 times just to mix up how I play without it changing my DPS from normal to garbage....
Not that it really matters, I mean your under the illusion that one person made all these things happen.
I believe that, yes, gaining the convenience of LFD/LFR means losing the niceness out of most people, because they no longer need to be responsible for their actions. It's pretty black and white, really.
This is how I see it, in a real life scenario;
Kill a man --> you get caught and punished (ninja loot, whole server shames you)
Kill a man --> you leave the country and live perfectly fine on the other side of the planet, where nobody knows who you are (ninja loot, leave to never be seen again)
Last edited by Chry; 2013-01-30 at 04:44 PM.
Hey mods can we get some infractions out and enforcement on the people who keep trolling the thread? thanks
@ darqhur and BrerBear
Humanizing a video game is crazy and down right annoying. I quit wow because I did not like how alt unfriendly mop was. I stay here reading the forums to see if things change but keep ruing in to people who are really emotional over a video game. Its not someones ex g/f or anything other than a fucking game.
Well I take that back for some of the shit bags I guess this would be more than a game. You know the people who Humanize a video game I guess it is all they have in their life is wow. Pretty fucking sad really
I do not think it was just lfd/lfr that caused the cesspool we have now. I really think it is a lack of enforcement of the said rules by Blizzard
Last edited by But I Hate You All; 2013-01-30 at 05:19 PM.
I find it a bit rich to see this complaint that "this or that" made World of Warcraft less social, and that there are more dicks now in the same thread that has many posters -who agree with that notion- that scream "YOU ARE WHAT CAUSED THIS" or start insulting those who disagree with the OP's (and similar) arguments at the slightest whim.
I mean, you sure seem like the social kind of people I would indubitably interact with.
This irony tastes delicious. High class.
Thanks for the awesome sig, Lady Amuno.
To be honest, I do miss the days that my name meant something. Where I would log in, and immediately get whispers from people asking me if I wanted to join it to heal/tank. Where, if I didn't get an instant invite, I could simply ask in /lfg or trade or even /1, and would get results pretty damned fast. It was always hilarious to see people spamming in those channels, and getting a group after my second question (note: The trick was NOT TO SPAM. BE CLEVER.) I LOVED that. Absolutely loved it.
These days, it's generally easier to just queue up. Easier even than responding to people. The only times I ever get asked is for hardmodes, and I'm not too interested in them, so while I'll gladly tank or heal you through them (at my best ability, which may not give the best results possible), I won't make groups for those myself.
So that's changed. I'm sad to see it go, really. But there's no denying that that would only have lasted so long... More and more people would become disenfranchised, more and more people would grow bored, and more and more people would leave the game. True; the people who would leave because of that were annoying spammers (and spammers were often quite bad as players, as well as unsocial), so not that much lost there, but for WoW's business model, it was clearly the healthier choice. Keeping people busy is great business.
Which brings me to pandaland. I am forced to quest to get money for gear upgrades (or just gear upgrades) so that I can run the normal mode dungeons. There's not enough gear drops there to lift me over the threshold by grinding them, xp is lousy, and the instances become old very quickly.
So I'm forced to quest or PvP.
The quest lines are nice... To have done once; maybe twice at most (one Horde, one Alliance should get you just enough difference to make it through), but I really don't feel like having to run that stuff thrice. The alternative is to focus purely on one character... But I really don't want to. I really don't want to spend all my time doing dailies in order to grind the gear I need to tank heroics for people I just cannot stand.
So I should be in larger guild that can pull me through those heroics.
There's options there, but it's completely pigeonholing me. I feel stifled. I feel like there's no progress to be had for a casual gamer. Hell; levelling from 85 to 90 takes ages when you're not playing this game every day for hours at a time.
When I log in, I want to do something with the prospect of getting somewhere. What I do not want it to log in and twiddle my thumbs because all incentive of doing something has been taken away by the feeling that it doesn't lead to anything anyway.
You still can kick people for bad behavior and if you hear of someone in your guild behaving badly in LFR/LFD you should repremand them that this behavior is not acceptable. If someone is doing the afk autoshoot thing they should be kicked, people should be watching for it rather than assuming no one does it. There are things we can do as players to punish bad behavior but its up to us to define what is acceptable behavior or not and not to do the same things ourselves.
Last edited by DeadmanWalking; 2013-01-30 at 05:26 PM.
I think faction/server/name changes did FAR more damage to the community than LFD/LFR.
PEPE SILVA, PEPE SILVA
On wow someone acts like a douchebag cusses someone out harasses them you are told to right click report or use ignore. Nothing happens to the offender
This argument that WoW itself is responsible for this is really sidestepping the issue. Plenty of other MMOs have implemented exactly the same featureset as WoW (LFD, LFR, I could go on), with none of them having the reputation that WoW does now of being full of clueless fucks.
The problem? People. People themselves have become impatient, and Blizzard knows this. After all, their sub numbers are dependant on their content reaching as many people as possible. I don't blame Blizzard for making these changes, because without them, the subscription count would be even lower than it is now.
The only thing I do blame Blizzard for are paid character transfers.