1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
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    Trying to figure this recent Blizz post out

    Ok so this might just be me, let me know what you think, but I just read this recent blue post explaining that Warlocks got all their changes because they needed an identity, that they were too close to mages. I've been maining a lock since around mid-cata, and playing since late BC. I don't really get this. I see it to an extent, but frankly, I feel like the new lock specs are far similar to mages than before. Demo used to be a lot more about your pet, and using Banes and such. I like the changes to Demo in PvE, but it still just feels like playing a frost mage as far as I'm concerned. And Destro, I never really played much Destro before the changes, and not really after them either, but I get how embers work. It just seems that as a fire mage you stack all kinds of procs and dots and stuff and then burst. Destro you just stack embers and keep up dots, and then burst. Affliction has always been my primary spec, and here I'm kind of on the fence. I think Pandemic made Affy too easy, but the whole game is getting easier, so that's kind of on par with everyone else. I like the changes to the way shards work though.

    But it's not just the specs, the talents feel that way too. Grim of Sac is like Arcane or Fire or Shadow, because you take away the quintessential Lock pet. Now don't get me wrong, I actually play with Sac, and not just because it's strong, even after the nerf I plan to. It caters to my personal playstyle, and statistically better or worse, it is better for me. I always wanted something like that for locks. But alas, it still makes them potentially more like mages. All mages got PoM, allowing for insta polly, and we got Blood Fear, so now both classes have the option to insta-8 sec CC. Dark Bargain is the lock version of Ice Block. Fel Flame is Ice Lance. Mages have Blink, Demo locks got a leap. Changes to Dark Regen make it now similar to Evocation. Mages have Blazing Speed, Locks got Burning Rush. Dark intent is a Raid Wide buff now, and while not producing the same effect, is still closer to Arcane Brilliance than it was before. Unending Resolve is a buffed version of Ice Barrier. Twighlight Ward acts more like Mage Armors than before.

    Anyway you get the point. I'm not saying I don't like some of the changes. I'm not saying the old lock was even particularly "better," I'm just saying it seems to me, from my perspective, Locks are closer to Mages than ever before. Anyhow, thoughts?
    Last edited by Tovarish24; 2013-01-30 at 10:36 AM.
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  2. #2
    Blademaster Beranin's Avatar
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    I see your point and I agree. While I think we are closer, warlocks have become more fun than they were in cata.

    I never payed close attention to the mage-lock similarities personally, I'll just roll with it.


    Master of puppets I'm pullin' your strings!

  3. #3
    If you want to look at it like that, all classes have simularities.
    I dont feel like my lock is the same as a mage, not at all tbh.

    Also sacrifice wouldnt be so populair if pets didn't have the most stupid AI in game.
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  4. #4
    I like the MoP warlock. Tho, I didnt believe warlocks needed a complete revamp. Always loved em, always will. While Pandemic have made it "easier", I like the way u have to utilize it to do top dps. It is insane however how much time is spent channeling MG. Give me a proc or something! And give men more dots. I want to have my screen completely filled with yellow text!!

  5. #5
    Well, there's no measure for identity. One can like the approach, or not. I do see where Blizzard is coming from, and I can also understand that someone might disagree.

  6. #6
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Locks are mages who went down the path of practicing dark magics

  7. #7
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Locks are mages who went down the path of practicing dark magics
    When looking from a lore-perspective, this is only true for the warlocks of the native Azeroth races. The orc warlocks were originally shamans.

    As to the point made in the OP, I disagree. I feel like the class is more unique than it was before.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Cryonic's Avatar
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    I loved warlocks in the old days, now I just can't stand play any of the specs. Too much to keep track of and/or clunky mechanics
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  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
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    Yeah like I said, it's not that I necessarily dislike the changes. I like a lot of what they did with us, but the argument that they did it to make us less like mages just feels out of place. I agree that if you want to start talking similarities, that all classes have them, my point is that I personally feel there are more with mages then there were with before. Hell, I could be wrong, that's just how I feel. Personally I liked playing a lock when it was the least played class. It was definitely one of the hardest classes to master for sure, and still might be. But it felt really good knowing I could play a lock well, compared to maybe a paladin or mage. It made me feel unique. So I don't know if it's the uniqueness of the way the class plays, or the uniqueness of the way it "feels" playing it, that makes a class "unique." Maybe it's a combination of both. I play a lot of alts, and have a habit of setting up my bars similarly based on similarities between classes. IE: my keybind is the same for IceBlock, Bubble, IBF, and Dark Bargain. My lock had far fewer of those keybind similarities pre MoP. It felt like my one class that really was it's own deal, and was completely different. Maybe I just got used to it, and now it just feels the same because I've learned more about the class. Who knows, but I'm glad I sparked a discussion.
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  10. #10
    Keyboard Turner
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Staffreak View Post
    I like the MoP warlock. Tho, I didnt believe warlocks needed a complete revamp. Always loved em, always will. While Pandemic have made it "easier", I like the way u have to utilize it to do top dps. It is insane however how much time is spent channeling MG. Give me a proc or something! And give men more dots. I want to have my screen completely filled with yellow text!!
    Not enough procs? I loose my mind sometimes with the number of procs I need to deal with.

    Darksoul, Trinket Proc, On Use Trinket, Jade Spirit, Light Weave, Nightfall ..... throw in a potion and away we go ....

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoclord View Post
    Not enough procs? I loose my mind sometimes with the number of procs I need to deal with.

    Darksoul, Trinket Proc, On Use Trinket, Jade Spirit, Light Weave, Nightfall ..... throw in a potion and away we go ....
    That it true :P im currently tracking 6 buffs/ICDS to max DoTs.. What i meant however is that i would like some proc "filler". Just something you react to between your MG spam :P

  12. #12
    I disagree with the notion we are more like mages now then before. I don't think we were EVER close to Mages, apart from the fact we were also ranged magic users. Anyone playing a mage or a warlock would have noticed the vast difference. I think GC mostly pointed at the fact that WITHOUT trying the class people had the idea that warlocks lacked identity. And I sort of see that if you look at it very casually, then it comes down to "Nice magic user" vs "Slightly evil magic user". Most people will opt for being the nice guy when faced with this choice. It's the same reason the Alliance and Paladins are on the whole the popular choices among casual players, I think, cause they are percieved as the "Nice" options.

    By making the spec identities more pronounced and more cohesive I think Blizz did an excellent job of making Warlocks stand apart from Mages and other classes. We'll still face the problem of people preffering the "Nice" Mage caster archetype over the Warlock "Slightly Evil" caster, but if they even take a dabble at playing a warlock, or look at what the class is about they'll quickly see interesting differences, and cool stuff.

  13. #13
    Pandemic are one of the better things that happened to us. It lowered the skill floor but at the same time increased the "skill roof" and made the playstyle more fun. Can't see why it's bad in any way. And you could find simililarities in all specs the way you are approaching it. I never liked playing mage ( mainly Fire) because of the RNG being a part of their rotation. Warlocks, especially Affli has nothing of that.
    Last edited by Tramzh; 2013-01-30 at 06:04 PM.

  14. #14
    I completely agree, the only spec that had identity issues in prior expansions was Destro.

    Now affliction is closer to a shadowpriest than ever, soulshard revamp? Great - they were useless before. MG and some of the other things we got? No thanks. Demo I think is fine - it needed the revamp (although I wish they'd made it more of a pet spec than so meta based), destro is so-so, I think it needed the redesign and it's better for it, but they should have taken it a bit further. I feel destro moved less away from a mage than affliction moved closer to a spriest.

  15. #15
    We're BETTER mages, and that is all that matters.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tramzh View Post
    Pandemic are one of the better things that happened to us. It lowered the skill floor but at the same time increased the "skill roof" and made the playstyle more fun. Can't see why it's bad in any way. And you could find simililarities in all specs the way you are approaching it. I never liked playing mage ( mainly Fire) because of the RNG being a part of their rotation. Warlocks, especially Affli has nothing of that.
    I havent played Fire so dont know that much about their RNG, but I've had more than once that i sit on 1ish soul shard when DS comes off CD. Even tho i start pooling them around the 40sec mark :P

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