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  1. #21
    I think the main problem boils down to:

    1. Not doing enough damage, LW was slightly nerfed, PD was nerfed big time, zerkers were nerfed, triforce was nerfed (allthough this only concerns Corki) and Warmogs was buffed. You simply don´t do enough damage early-mid game with auto attacks. Bruisers and junglers with Warmogs just show up in your face and you are not enough of a threat to them to force them off you. Your ability to just 1v1 a bruiser is a lot worse.

    2. Not being able to get any good defensive items. Usually ADCs would get double dorans to add a bit of tankiness and then eventually get a QSS/GA, all of these items were nerfed. That 200 hp that you got from dorans blade really helped and you definitly feel squishier. QSS and GA are expensive to get now and they give way lower base stats, not worth it to get at all. So you are basically being forced to either suck it up and pay the price for a QSS or get a Warmogs which you won´t itemize well anyways , you just buy it because it is really fucking OP.

    3. Mid/Top/Jungle champion pool changing. No longer will you get a Nautilius/Alistar jungler who works as your second support in teamfights, people play bruiser junglers and that is just another person coming to get you in fights. Mid laners often are not the typical AP carries anymore who will distract the enemies attention from you (Karthus mainly) nor APs who will protect you (Orianna, Anivia). The issue with this is when the mid laner is an AD assasin or bruiser, that is another person coming to get you in teamfights. Not to mention their team as a whole becomes a lot tankier when the mid laner builds warmogs aswell.

    So basically you are left with a very small pool of viable carrys. If Riot wants to fix this I suggest they start by buffing PD, it will probablly help a whole lot for the standard auto attack carrys.

  2. #22
    Twitch is 1 of the only hyper carries that can survive the "assassin / bruisers / AD caster".eta, as long as he is smart. Don't use ur stealth for the steroid EVER in a team fight. If they LOOK like they are going to dive you, stealth and swing to the other side. Either the diver has oracles and ur FASTER via the speed boost, or u totally juke and their divers are temp out of the fight looking for u.
    I think adc's are still good, but the skill quotient is ALOT higher. Spend 80% to 90% kiting and peeling and u win. Tough with Olaf, but most adc's CAN outrun him if your paying attention, you can see when he will dive.

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    If only the Huge buff to Melee caster ADs translated easily over to Melee AD carries. Alot of the items seem right on foot, but last hitting and surving pokes as someone like Trynd or Yi is horrible.

    Pretty much pushes out being an AD carry unless you're good and or you take top lane.
    They chose not to buff the Melee AD carries as much because their kits are still very binary, in that either they get fed/farmed and roflstomp everyone, or they get behind early and become non-factors in teamfights. And since their kits are based on just dealing damage, you can't easily catch up with them if you do fall behind. That binary factor also makes them difficult to balance, as seen with all the nerfs Tryndamere and Gangplank received over the years.
    Last edited by Thallidomaniac; 2013-01-31 at 08:34 AM.

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  4. #24
    Twitch is the best team fight adc imo, he will just vanish right before his team engages, position himself while everyone is trying to find him and just unleash his ult, hopefully the other team is somewhat grouped up and you can easily get a triple kill. For getting ganked in lane it can be quite difficult considering his invis and slow. Don't even try trading with twitch 1v1 if he has used his invis and has his attack speed buff, he may die but he will get the kill and thats what he wants so he can be fed going into team fights.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isrozzis View Post
    Wall of text due to phone
    Twitch does play much like MF. However.

    His Slow does not last for a duration, making it less useful for zoningm His Q is an invisibility, true enough, a much better thing now, but still countered by 400 gold.

    His R makes him have huge range correct, but it lasts too little to use it out of a teamfight already engaged. And his E just drops of dramatically, twitch basically becomes an Auto fire Ult turret who needs to be protected or he blows up.

    He basically needs farm to much farm, where he is weakest, to perform.

    Assassins and brusiers got buffed, these only work against Twitch.


    Edit: Like I said, Twitch works good on paper, but simply put, if a brusier with a truesight team-mate is around jumps on him.. he'll be destroyed. And he'll often be away from the enemy team to position himself.
    Last edited by The Fiend; 2013-01-30 at 07:20 PM.
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  6. #26
    Moderator Axethor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Twitch does play much like MF. However.

    His Slow does not last for a duration, making it less useful for zoningm His Q is an invisibility, true enough, a much better thing now, but still countered by 400 gold.

    His R makes him have huge range correct, but it lasts too little to use it out of a teamfight already engaged. And his E just drops of dramatically, twitch basically becomes an Auto fire Ult turret who needs to be protected or he blows up.

    He basically needs farm to much farm, where he is weakest, to perform.

    Assassins and brusiers got buffed, these only work against Twitch.


    Edit: Like I said, Twitch works good on paper, but simply put, if a brusier with a truesight team-mate is around jumps on him.. he'll be destroyed. And he'll often be away from the enemy team to position himself.
    Any ADC gets destroyed if they get caught. Your making it out to be a special situation for Twitch, when it's not. It's part of playing an ADC without a godly escape. Just look at Kog'Maw, another late game carry. If you have a protect the Kog'Maw comp he will wreck. Same for Twitch, but Twitch has an escape while Kog does not.

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  7. #27
    Dreadlord Kenai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Twitch does play much like MF. However.

    His Slow does not last for a duration, making it less useful for zoningm His Q is an invisibility, true enough, a much better thing now, but still countered by 400 gold.

    His R makes him have huge range correct, but it lasts too little to use it out of a teamfight already engaged. And his E just drops of dramatically, twitch basically becomes an Auto fire Ult turret who needs to be protected or he blows up.

    He basically needs farm to much farm, where he is weakest, to perform.

    Assassins and brusiers got buffed, these only work against Twitch.


    Edit: Like I said, Twitch works good on paper, but simply put, if a brusier with a truesight team-mate is around jumps on him.. he'll be destroyed. And he'll often be away from the enemy team to position himself.
    Twitch is in the same situation Kog is/was. He needs the extra babysitting because of no "real" escape, and the game needs to drag on into a lategame for him to become a true beast, but he scales incredibly well. Also, it's been said, but 90% of the flaws you list for Twitch apply to every ADC. Watch a stream, they get jumped by Assassins, turret dived, you name it. You are really downplaying his Q and E, they win lane trades unless the enemy jungler babysits bot lane, which means the other lanes better be able to handle themselves alone early game. For the record, I don't think he is *that* good, but a coordinated team (which you won't see in solo que) taking full advantage of him is a scary thing.

    As for the overall ADC scene, it's primarily due to the "League of Bruisers" mentioned before. This has affected a lot of full AP mage-style toons as well who haven't been able to make use of the new item sets. Bruisers and the like should *not* be able to put out massive damage while focusing primarily on defensive items unless their lead is huge, like 4-5 kills ahead of their lane opponent. Yet I see several characters (we pretty much know who they are at this point) basically breaking even on CS and farm and being "rewarded" for a mediocre performance with snowballing just because. I don't care who thinks its a good idea, I say it's terrible and contradicts the items being labeled "defensive" in the first place, not to mention the concept of "breaking even".
    Last edited by Kenai; 2013-01-30 at 08:10 PM.
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  8. #28
    Man, that derail of twitch viability vs other adc's lol. On topic, I think bruisers scale too well mud game, but ultimately they lose out in damage late game, it's just fact. BUT their mid game cripples the late game damage of the adc's (and apc's lol).

  9. #29
    i just feel corki got nerfed a bit and mf got more strong thats all

  10. #30
    From my S3 experience the entire role of the AD carry now is "kite the 2 bruisers and assassin trying to kill you while the rest of the team ignores it".
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    From my S3 experience the entire role of the AD carry now is "kite the 2 bruisers and assassin trying to kill you while the rest of the team ignores it".
    This sounds about right. Randoms are so unreliable.

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    From my S3 experience the entire role of the AD carry now is "kite the 2 bruisers and assassin trying to kill you while the rest of the team ignores it".
    Only three people chasing you? You're so lucky!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    From my S3 experience the entire role of the AD carry now is "kite the 2 bruisers and assassin trying to kill you while the rest of the team ignores it".
    Nope you forgot Blitzcrank...fisting Shen into your face.
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  14. #34
    I've only been playing LOL for a week now but I have to agree that the ADC feel terribly weak. I understand the games mechanics and how it works however playing as an ADC I just got pissed off with bruisers and melee characters having HP pools I couldn't make a dent in. Even with the highest amount of creep farmed and a few levels above the enemy character I still find that as soon as any melee character gets into range I had no chance of surviving. I can hit and run sure, but most have some form of gap closer and coupled with another champion with a stun = game over for me.

    Changed over to APC and found it much easier to farm mid on my own and hold the lane/steal a few early kills plus pump out damage in late game without relying on auto attack.

  15. #35
    Teach me how yo play Twitch please. They say he's good but I really suck with him. Mostly in laning phase. I can't win any trade early ;/ They outdamage me and I don't have any poke like Ez/MF.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roudene View Post
    Teach me how yo play Twitch please. They say he's good but I really suck with him. Mostly in laning phase. I can't win any trade early ;/ They outdamage me and I don't have any poke like Ez/MF.
    Twitch early damage is one of the highest. You want short engages in which you get a few stacks of poison on and then expunge, no one else should really be able to match your damage at that point.
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  17. #37
    Moderator Isrozzis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    From my S3 experience the entire role of the AD carry now is "kite the 2 bruisers and assassin trying to kill you while the rest of the team ignores it".
    ya that's been my experience lol. Thus I've been playing a lot of Ezreal, since he can sort of peel himself. Other ADs are really fun to play, say twitch, but they require so much more effort that ez does. Even though Ez has been nerfed repeatedly (s2 nerfs mainly), he is still the premier solo Q AD imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Twitch early damage is one of the highest. You want short engages in which you get a few stacks of poison on and then expunge, no one else should really be able to match your damage at that point.
    To add on to this, you want to engage when they have a hard time putting damage back onto you. It also helps a lot if your support is on the same wavelength as you. I tend not to play twitch in solo Q because I have no idea what my support is going to do, but if I Q with a support that I know, I am much more likely to bust twitch out.

    I also have some rambling on twitch, in the replay thread if they are of any help.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Nope you forgot Blitzcrank...fisting Shen into your face.
    I think I need some alone time after imagining that.

  19. #39
    Yesterday I played Varus with a Nunu support in a blind....versus Xin and Khaziz....that was sad.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Twitch early damage is one of the highest. You want short engages in which you get a few stacks of poison on and then expunge, no one else should really be able to match your damage at that point.
    Basically.. you want your enemy team to be stupid.
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