Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Do you know if defense spending has more economic output that medicare and social security spending?
    It would depend on what it was used for. How many jobs would making military hardware create within the enitre supply chain. I learned from the Auto bailout that it could be millions of jobs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 04:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    Oh so is that is why in states like NY and California their GDPs are INCREASING? Stop the crap, these states are global powerhouses, and if it wasn't for them we would be a very different country. And you do know just because one state's population and GDP are increasing doesn't mean it's "stealing" from another state's?

    If your premise was correct, then we should see a very noticeable decline in the GDP of California and the Northeast. Show me that is happening.

    Detroit has been losing people since the 1960's from its peak of like 2 million. Makes sense, since the majority of the auto plants were outsourced to Mexico and the like. It has potential to transform into a city not so dependent on the automotive sector, but that will take some years.

    The interesting thing about Texas is just how propped up it is by the federal government. I believe it has the most federal employees there, has the most military bases, and of course the dismal welfare and medical numbers there, it makes sense the government has to send billions of dollars there annually.

    But please, show me how many states it would take to compare to what New York and California produce.
    Cite your sources please.

  2. #102
    Brewmaster The Riddler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm tall, and thin, with a bright red head but strike me once and I'm black instead...
    Posts
    1,451
    Cite your sources please
    (More crickets chirping)

    As with most neolibs, there are no sources. There are isolated opinion-oid talking points that get parroted on KOS, HuffPo, or Gawker which get repeated as IF they were sources...

  3. #103
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    4,492
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    It would depend on what it was used for. How many jobs would making military hardware create within the enitre supply chain. I learned from the Auto bailout that it could be millions of jobs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 04:01 PM ----------



    Cite your sources please.
    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/13...rgest-economy/

    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/gdp_by_state

    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/...ire-countries/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 09:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    (More crickets chirping)

    As with most neolibs, there are no sources. There are isolated opinion-oid talking points that get parroted on KOS, HuffPo, or Gawker which get repeated as IF they were sources...
    What, you make the claim that the most productive states in our Union are losing "thousands" of people, yet their GDPs are rising. Complete lie.

  4. #104
    These show that they have large GDP, I am not disputing that. Show me where Texas is propped up by the federal government. Show me how federal monies to red states are going to poverty stricken areas and state welfare programs exclusively.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Daelak View Post
    What is so surprising about the uptick in spending in the fourth quarter? Did you hear about Hurricane Sandy?
    and most of that money went directly to the public and was spent. so what happened to the demand side economics you say works? here is a prime example of it

    money given to the public should have increased the economy not decrease it. right? that is the theory right?

  6. #106
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    24,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    and most of that money went directly to the public and was spent. so what happened to the demand side economics you say works? here is a prime example of it

    money given to the public should have increased the economy not decrease it. right? that is the theory right?
    So you think the hurricane that wiped out businesses, infrastructure, and housing would immediately increase the economy?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    These show that they have large GDP, I am not disputing that. Show me where Texas is propped up by the federal government. Show me how federal monies to red states are going to poverty stricken areas and state welfare programs exclusively.
    The term "red states" is kind of misused here since the person who wins the election in a given state does not effect this topic. In point of fact, TX gets back about 0.90 dollars for every dollar in federal taxes.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/fed...tate-1981-2005

    I know, it only goes to 2005, but an updated study hasn't been funded.

    There are however a lot of agricultural states that receive a large amount of the federal funds, far more then they pay into the system. One of the points trying to be made here is that (for example) California would not have a budget issue if they where not paying out so much to the Federal Government and getting comparably so little back. The difference between what we get in Federal aid and what we pay out would cover the budget gap and then some. Not that I'm advocating we do anything like that, but it seems more often then not those complaining about how bad we're doing and how little they need are the ones getting the most from what we're giving.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    So you think the hurricane that wiped out businesses, infrastructure, and housing would immediately increase the economy?


    was that money spent? most of it has been so there shouldn't be a delay
    your the type who would argue that throwing gasoline on a fire would put it out if you throw enough and waited long enough

  9. #109
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    24,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    was that money spent? most of it has been so there shouldn't be a delay
    your the type who would argue that throwing gasoline on a fire would put it out if you throw enough and waited long enough
    You know what happens when your business is destroyed? Business stops.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  10. #110
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    4,492
    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    These show that they have large GDP, I am not disputing that. Show me where Texas is propped up by the federal government. Show me how federal monies to red states are going to poverty stricken areas and state welfare programs exclusively.
    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923084.html

    http://www.examiner.com/article/stat...-federal-money

    http://militarybases.com/texas/

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49200137/page/3

  11. #111
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    was that money spent? most of it has been so there shouldn't be a delay
    your the type who would argue that throwing gasoline on a fire would put it out if you throw enough and waited long enough
    Federal funds got approved like three days ago for Sandy relief. I don't see how it could have been spent already.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  12. #112
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    4,492
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    and most of that money went directly to the public and was spent. so what happened to the demand side economics you say works? here is a prime example of it

    money given to the public should have increased the economy not decrease it. right? that is the theory right?
    If the federal government gave an amount equal to or exceeding the estimated loss of GDP during the time period of Sandy, then yes it perpetuated the demand.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    You know what happens when your business is destroyed? Business stops.

    people still needed to eat people still need a place to stay so the customers that businesses had that got destroyed went to other businesses

  14. #114
    Brewmaster The Riddler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm tall, and thin, with a bright red head but strike me once and I'm black instead...
    Posts
    1,451
    First, a hat tip for finally coughing up the source of your misinformation. Now - on to the substance.

    Your source says that the top ten are...
    #10 Maryland (BLUE)
    #9 Texas (RED)
    #8 Delaware (BLUE)
    #7 N. Dakota (RED)
    #6 Mississippi (RED)
    #5 Virginia (Toss up)
    #4 Hawaii (BLUE)
    #3 S. Carolina (RED)
    #2 Louisiana (Toss up - leaning Blue)
    #1 Florida (Toss up - leaning Blue)

    This does not make your case. If your posit was correct then all 10 would be Red states with may be 1 'blueish' state. Nope. Three are 3 toss ups (two of which lean blue), 3 solidly Blue, and 4 solidly Red. In real terms, it is about 50/50. Hardly your painted picture of red states all toothless hicks all lazing around on free gummint cheese, sittin' on the porch (a cracked cinderblock), staring out at the trailer-park yard full of rusting pick-um-up truck parts.

    How about welfare?

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/31910310/page/15

    Gee - its California, Maine, Tennesee, Massachusetts, Vermont, DC, New York, Minnesota, Washington, New Mexico, Indiana, and Rhode Island. Mostly Blue states there...

    Who is getting the most bailout money?

    http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/19/bai...out-money.html

    More than half are the Blue states.

    So the assertion that Red states siphoning off disproportionate amounts of Federal cash is bogus.

    Now - please supply the links that you used to come to the conclusions about Red states are disproportionately high with people who are uneducated, unproductive, single-parents, poor-elderly, and welfare-kids. That sounds to me more like you are describing New York City, Detroit, New Orleans, Chicago, and other "Blue" enclaves.
    Last edited by The Riddler; 2013-01-30 at 10:10 PM.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Federal funds got approved like three days ago for Sandy relief. I don't see how it could have been spent already.
    that was in addition to the millions that have already went to that area and been spent

  16. #116
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Mini Soda
    Posts
    24,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    people still needed to eat people still need a place to stay so the customers that businesses had that got destroyed went to other businesses
    You know hurricanes span hundreds of miles, right? Because I don't think you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  17. #117
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    that was in addition to the millions that have already went to that area and been spent
    lol millions?

    And no. It wasn't. The Sandy aid package just passed Congress. These are the first federally allocated funds for Sandy relief efforts. It took so long because the house refused to vote on it after the fiscal cliff fiasco.
    Last edited by Deadvolcanoes; 2013-01-30 at 10:28 PM.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    So you think the hurricane that wiped out businesses, infrastructure, and housing would immediately increase the economy?
    I think we're back to grasping for straws as excuses.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 11:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    You know what happens when your business is destroyed? Business stops.
    It was a bad hurricane, but it wasn't so bad that "business stops". Maybe if you lived in an area affected by it you would know something about it, I do... and yes some business did stop. But others picked up that weren't adversely effected.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  19. #119
    The Lightbringer Deadvolcanoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,599
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    It was a bad hurricane, but it wasn't so bad that "business stops". Maybe if you lived in an area affected by it you would know something about it, I do... and yes some business did stop. But others picked up that weren't adversely effected.
    Sandy was the second costliest hurricane to hit the US ever. It hit the most densely populated area in the US. To believe that it didn't have an adverse effect on our economy is pretty laughable.

    That's not to say that the economy would have been flourishing had the hurricane not occurred. But it certainly had an impact.

    It's an explanation, not an excuse.
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadvolcanoes View Post
    Sandy was the second costliest hurricane to hit the US ever. It hit the most densely populated area in the US. To believe that it didn't have an adverse effect on our economy is pretty laughable.

    That's not to say that the economy would have been flourishing had the hurricane not occurred. But it certainly had an impact.

    It's an explanation, not an excuse.
    Do you live in the area Sandy hit?

    I live on the freaking ocean in NY that was one of hardest hit areas there was, no power 2 weeks... Ok the supermarket down on the east end is out of power and flooded, but you go to the one on the westend that is open.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •