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  1. #1
    I am Murloc! The Fiend's Avatar
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    Chain Warden, the Future?

    As a person who has played both the LoL and Dota ( Dota 2 as well. ) I can say with alot of confidence.


    Chain Warden is designed like a Dota character. He isn't designed around a role such as tanky, support, AP brusier or anything. He's designed around a role as a character. Namely, controling with chains and knockbacks. he has uniqueness to him, he fills one role as a "Support" Other supports cannot do.

    Also, the main thing that makes him designed like a Dota character. He has Mechanics unique to him that fit him into such a niche.

    He plays like how Dota Supports work, and he feels very much at home with that design doctrine.

    we've kinda seen this before, Lulu is very much like a Dota support as well, ( She feels alike to Warlock in this regard )

    The main crux is however this. Is he the future of designs? or is he just a one off chance in different game design?

    Do people welcome a more unique aproach?

    Personally, I find he's the best Support design ever made since Lulu.
    "What do you seek within the mountain?"

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Raminax's Avatar
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    Well, it's kind of nice that Riot released a fully specialized champion (in this case, positioning), but at the same time I feel that it's sad that the overspecialization kind of becomes a crippling flaw at the same time. Niche picks always make me kind sad.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Riot will continue and try the trend. They did state that they were going to release newer champion with less frequency, but that they would try to polish them and make them more unique in the process, I guess.

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raminax View Post
    Well, it's kind of nice that Riot released a fully specialized champion (in this case, positioning), but at the same time I feel that it's sad that the overspecialization kind of becomes a crippling flaw at the same time. Niche picks always make me kind sad.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Riot will continue and try the trend. They did state that they were going to release newer champion with less frequency, but that they would try to polish them and make them more unique in the process, I guess.
    I personally find niche picks the best order of the day when it comes to a game like LoL.

    It means that although you may not, for example, do the best damage as a brusier, the unique factor of your design means you can apply better somewhere else.

    I personally think LoL also suffers from "Role Syndrome" where all the Brusiers build pretty much the same, and pretty much play the same. AP casters start feeling the same and AD carries also.
    "What do you seek within the mountain?"

  4. #4
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    I kind of enjoy the new mechanics for Thresh, it's definitely challenging, but fun at the same time. Some of the support classes were getting a bit tiresome, even though Nami did add some interesting mechanics.

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Grading's Avatar
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    Yeah, most new supports are a step in the right direction.

    Thresh is fun, but man, people do not know how to use him effectively. Especially the lantern is hard for people to grasp.

  6. #6
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grading View Post
    Yeah, most new supports are a step in the right direction.

    Thresh is fun, but man, people do not know how to use him effectively. Especially the lantern is hard for people to grasp.
    I hate people dying when there's a lantern right next to them to get to safety.

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    I hate people dying when there's a lantern right next to them to get to safety.
    Release day was murder, got raged at for letting my team mate die and "Only throwing a lantern at him" he soon learnt if he had clicked the lantern he would live.

    But to be on topic yes the feel of Thresh is amazing and in my opinion it is a step in the right direction, hoping they continue it.

  8. #8
    That lantern saved my ass so many times, crazy. I like the way he's quite niche character, and well, I think there should be more champs like him, more diversity is always welcome.

  9. #9
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Hoppins View Post
    Release day was murder, got raged at for letting my team mate die and "Only throwing a lantern at him" he soon learnt if he had clicked the lantern he would live.

    But to be on topic yes the feel of Thresh is amazing and in my opinion it is a step in the right direction, hoping they continue it.
    It's great offensively as well for a "flash" mechanic back to safety if your ADC wants to get a little ballsy and poke deeper than usual.

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  10. #10
    The worst part on thrash is that retarded attack animation.

    I can forgive them retarded teleportation tool, retard-mode lux shield, or weird looking Q animation, but I can't forgive them releasing crap champion that autoattacks stuff without you seeing anything connect. He swings air all the time. There is no other character in the game with such glitched attack animation.

    Also his passive seems to be pretty overrated, there is actually very little counterplay to it apparently, as the thing he needs to collect stays on for very long period of time. It feels almost something like 30s.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    I hate people dying when there's a lantern right next to them to get to safety.
    Play him solo top so you don't have to worry about morons not knowing how to click it. It is hilarious how big his early game poke is and how hard people underestimate him.

  12. #12
    Epic! Anium's Avatar
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    my chain warden went jungle
    he failed hard

  13. #13
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anium View Post
    my chain warden went jungle
    he failed hard
    He's not really made for jungle.

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  14. #14


    All top.

    Just had a Riven complain I did way to much damage for a support. They just have to nerf that Q passive because this is getting hilarious.

  15. #15
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Led ++ View Post


    All top.

    Just had a Riven complain I did way to much damage for a support. They just have to nerf that Q passive because this is getting hilarious.
    How were you building?

    Sunfyre | Blog | Twitter

  16. #16
    Second PVP game as Thresh,since enemy team wasn't really good I played more aggressive than I'm used to:

    After playing against some bots,I finally start to get better at attack timing,because when I bought him yesterday I was missing hooks like crazy.

    Excuse me, are you saying something? Nah, you can't tell me nothing

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    How were you building?
    I tried 2 ways up till now. The 21/9 offensive build, or the 9/21 defenseive build depending what role I would fulfill. Currently I have AD marks, AD yellows, MR/lvl blue and MS quints. I feel I don't need the armor yellows that hard since most top champs have a relative hard time getting to you because of your E. That and the AD yellows make his ridiculous Q passive do even more damage.

    Want more safety? Get AD quints and armor yellows, works fine too.

    With both builds I generally want to start with a Long Sword and 2 pots. Seriously, the damage is huge and you really don't spam spells a lot so you shouldn't have mana problems. If I'm to scared I'll get raped, perhaps agaisnt a Good Renekton for example, you could go armor and 5 pots. Or armor, ward and a few pots. Do try to invade, the damage you do with a red passive Q and the double grab is immense. In my opinion, it's far better then Blitz to invade, only downside is that it doesn't pull through most walls of course.

    As for items. I feel I've had the most succes with an offensive build. There are good damage items that provide quite good MR, Mercurial or Maw come to mind depending on situation. And you farm like a breeze (and should be farming constantly if you can) so sould provide you with quite some armor too. You feel you need a bit more? Just buy some.

    So generally I start with Long Sword + pots, depending how hard the lane is, this can get upgraded to Vamp Scepter with boots, or instantly Berserkers boots if you don't need the Lifesteal. From there it's generally Zephyr (the AS is awesome, the CDR is awesome, the MS is awesome and it has great Tenacity). If they're really low on CC you could switch it with soemthing else. Runaans Hurricane comes to mind, gives no AD, BUT the passive makes you a ridiculous farming monster since the on hit effects also apply to your Q passive. SO you'll do the 10+50% AD to 2 other targets + your passive to 2 extra targets. Combined it's quite a lot and it gives you tons of Attack Speed. I generally always want 1 item with a good amount of AS.

    Then I generally get BT. BT is always good, lots of Lifesteal and loads of AD (getting high AD with Runaans and your Q passive is always good). Then it all depends, you have nice tanks/cc/initiation in your team? Get a Black Cleaver or something. You're team lacks some CC or tankyness? Frozen Mallet. You just want a lot of extra health (since you're farily tanky for the damage you do)? Warmogs. It all depends on your team and their team at that point.


    The other way was the more bruiser-ish way. Early Brutilizer, Warmogs, Frozen Mallet, Atmas, Maw, Merc Shoes, things like that. This makes you do less damage of course, but on the other hand you're a lot more tanky, and that can be very useful for protecting your carries for example since you got CC coming out of every manhole you got. If someone can get away with you after your Q, Frozen Mallet, E and Ulti, then something is wrong (and then you still have the lantern).

    As for skill priority. Start with Q at 1, E at 2 (helps massive against level 2 ganks and can even net you some double kills with towers) then it's just R > Q > W > E
    For some reason I prefer W over E, it's more useful in teamfights and I generally use E to knock people away or back in again, not really for the slow or damage.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    As a person who has played both the LoL and Dota ( Dota 2 as well. ) I can say with alot of confidence.


    Chain Warden is designed like a Dota character. He isn't designed around a role such as tanky, support, AP brusier or anything. He's designed around a role as a character. Namely, controling with chains and knockbacks. he has uniqueness to him, he fills one role as a "Support" Other supports cannot do.

    Also, the main thing that makes him designed like a Dota character. He has Mechanics unique to him that fit him into such a niche.

    He plays like how Dota Supports work, and he feels very much at home with that design doctrine.

    we've kinda seen this before, Lulu is very much like a Dota support as well, ( She feels alike to Warlock in this regard )

    The main crux is however this. Is he the future of designs? or is he just a one off chance in different game design?

    Do people welcome a more unique aproach?

    Personally, I find he's the best Support design ever made since Lulu.
    I'm not really following your line of thought. All champions fit into 1 or 2 roles with a little bit of flexibility. What is making Thresh so unique that you think he is starting a trend? What heroes are you comparing it to in Dota? How do the other 'support' champions in LoL not measure up to this to trend or standard?

    Are you saying that his abilities seem to match his story and aesthetic design? How do others not do that?

  19. #19
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Thanks for the write up, Led, that helps a lot.

    I am surprised that Thresh is considered 'ranged' (for Runaan's Hurricane to work). I know he had a ridiculously far melee range, but I still figured he was considered a melee-range champ.

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  20. #20
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grading View Post
    Yeah, most new supports are a step in the right direction.

    Thresh is fun, but man, people do not know how to use him effectively. Especially the lantern is hard for people to grasp.
    I feel the problem with the lantern is that OTHER people don't know how to use it I put it down and people never use it.

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