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  1. #41
    So, I just tried fistweaving on a training dummy on live and on ptr. My damage is about five times higher on ptr than on live, thanks to onehand buff and muscle memory. It might be even higher, since instead of doing nothing and just autoattacking when your buffs are up and there is no greater raid damage, you will be tiger palming.

    Just some numbers: Tiger Palm and BK do about 80k noncrit with musclememory, jab does 7k, autoattacking 12k average noncrit.

    [Edit just for comparison]On live my tp does 12k noncrit, BK 24k, jab 5k and autoattacking avg 10k[/edit]

    In raids on live I am doing about 20-25k dps, usually competing with the tanks for the lower end of damage recount, if this would go live as it is on PTR that would mean I would be doing about 100k dps (but again, it's hard to actually calculate the raid buffed scaling from a target dummy test).
    If the healing still is as high as on live (or maybe even buffed - this is quite hard to test on a training dummy), this would have a drastical impact especially on 10 player raiding, where fistweavers could significantly contribute to raid damage requirements, benching - depending on the fight - pure healers or pure damagedealers.

    I really cannot imagine this will go live as it is right now.
    Last edited by Puri; 2013-02-02 at 11:06 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    Any accidental interactions with the world frame are easily solved by using clique, put any buffs you need to know on your frames and have an ounce of situational awareness so you know who is where in your raid.
    Oh so it does require addons to work properly, thank you for clarifying that, because you made it sound like no addons were required to use mouseover macros.

    Wait no, you didn't make it sound like that, you outright said it. Think twice before making broad statements about how wrong someone else is.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Oh so it does require addons to work properly, thank you for clarifying that, because you made it sound like no addons were required to use mouseover macros.

    Wait no, you didn't make it sound like that, you outright said it. Think twice before making broad statements about how wrong someone else is.
    Mouseover macros don't require addons to work. That's fact. You raise an issue with macros in their default state when not using addons, he commented that there is an easy fix, and now you're attacking him saying that mouseover macros don't work without addons... which is obviously not true.

    Most of the problems you cite aren't actually problems. Raid frames show soothing mist, and if you've forgotten who you cast on seconds ago I think that's a larger problem than whether or not it's showing on the frame. I don't find it at all difficult to see people in the field or find where they are, so using zen sphere and chi burst isn't particularly difficult (though I do tend to raid 10 man primarily, so that might be more of an issue in 25s).

    As for the target frame giving other information.... honestly, your tank should be communicating when he's using big cooldowns, and any debuffs should already be easily visible on your raid frames.



    For me, I have always used Vuhdo, and I continue to do so with my mistweaver. I can easily see enveloping mist, who has it, and if it's fresh, how many times it has left to jump; I can see the time remaining on all my buffs, as well as on all debuffs. Click casting makes using soothing mist without dropping target trivial, allowing for seamless transitions between fistweaving and traditional healing. In sum total, I find the system works perfectly to let me do everything I want without any difficulties.
    ... none of that means it's the best system for you. More than any other role, I personally find that healer interface is something that is very personal, and depends a lot on the player, the spec, the raid... everything. As long as you're using an interface that lets you react quickly and accurately, and gives you all necessary information, I don't care at all how you do it.


    ... but you still don't need an addon to use a mouseover macro :-P

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Oh so it does require addons to work properly, thank you for clarifying that, because you made it sound like no addons were required to use mouseover macros.

    Wait no, you didn't make it sound like that, you outright said it. Think twice before making broad statements about how wrong someone else is.
    You would require an addon if you wanted it to stop interacting with the world yes, I wouldn't be surprised though if there was a simple /script to fix that though. That doesn't mean that an addon is in any way shape or form a requirement for mouseovers. I have no problems saying that there are some addons that are required for anyone who wants to play properly though, such as a ReM counter for quick reference and a boss mod to time your TFT. There are no valid reasons for not getting rid of simple limitations imposed on your gameplay by the game's default UI if you want to play properly.

  5. #45
    Using unglyphed jab was mentioned a few times in this thread? Did a miss a new glyph that was added? Because there is currently no glyph that adds anything useful to jab.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizod View Post
    Using unglyphed jab was mentioned a few times in this thread? Did a miss a new glyph that was added? Because there is currently no glyph that adds anything useful to jab.
    Currently on live unglyphed jab costs 9k mana but glyphed jab costs 11.7k

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizod View Post
    Using unglyphed jab was mentioned a few times in this thread? Did a miss a new glyph that was added? Because there is currently no glyph that adds anything useful to jab.

    It's not.. purely cosmetic. But some people don't like seeing weapons it seems.
    Macphisto, discipline priest | Karuzo, mistweaver monk

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    Currently on live unglyphed jab costs 9k mana but glyphed jab costs 11.7k
    This is mostly true. If you're using a fist weapon, it's 11.7k mana whether it's glyphed or not.

    Useless corner-case knowledge I know, but it's at least possible they'll implement a healing fist sometime, right? 3/5 healer classes can use it, same as several other types of weapons.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    So, I just tried fistweaving on a training dummy on live and on ptr. My damage is about five times higher on ptr than on live, thanks to onehand buff and muscle memory. It might be even higher, since instead of doing nothing and just autoattacking when your buffs are up and there is no greater raid damage, you will be tiger palming.

    Just some numbers: Tiger Palm and BK do about 80k noncrit with musclememory, jab does 7k, autoattacking 12k average noncrit.

    [Edit just for comparison]On live my tp does 12k noncrit, BK 24k, jab 5k and autoattacking avg 10k[/edit]

    In raids on live I am doing about 20-25k dps, usually competing with the tanks for the lower end of damage recount, if this would go live as it is on PTR that would mean I would be doing about 100k dps (but again, it's hard to actually calculate the raid buffed scaling from a target dummy test).
    If the healing still is as high as on live (or maybe even buffed - this is quite hard to test on a training dummy), this would have a drastical impact especially on 10 player raiding, where fistweavers could significantly contribute to raid damage requirements, benching - depending on the fight - pure healers or pure damagedealers.

    I really cannot imagine this will go live as it is right now.
    Yeah they will in some way nerf Muscle Memory and increase SZ and Eminence to compensate. I'm thinking 20% SZ 33% Eminence 100% Muscle Memory will be closer to the final numbers. I doubt Blizzard will let Fistweavers pull more than 50% DPS of an equal ilvl DPS on a non-gimmick fight.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    So, I just tried fistweaving on a training dummy on live and on ptr. My damage is about five times higher on ptr than on live, thanks to onehand buff and muscle memory. It might be even higher, since instead of doing nothing and just autoattacking when your buffs are up and there is no greater raid damage, you will be tiger palming.

    Just some numbers: Tiger Palm and BK do about 80k noncrit with musclememory, jab does 7k, autoattacking 12k average noncrit.

    [Edit just for comparison]On live my tp does 12k noncrit, BK 24k, jab 5k and autoattacking avg 10k[/edit]

    In raids on live I am doing about 20-25k dps, usually competing with the tanks for the lower end of damage recount, if this would go live as it is on PTR that would mean I would be doing about 100k dps (but again, it's hard to actually calculate the raid buffed scaling from a target dummy test).
    If the healing still is as high as on live (or maybe even buffed - this is quite hard to test on a training dummy), this would have a drastical impact especially on 10 player raiding, where fistweavers could significantly contribute to raid damage requirements, benching - depending on the fight - pure healers or pure damagedealers.

    I really cannot imagine this will go live as it is right now.
    Again I dont see why people are freaking out over healer dps. Its like people havent seen a disc priest atonement heal before. Do you realize that a disc priest can push decent dps if they ONLY atonement healed? And how lackluster their healing output would be? The same holds true for MW on the PTR. Sure you can sit on top of a full out dps rotation. But think about if you actually were worried about healing for a second. GCDs= mana tea,chi wave, renewing mists, free surging mists every 5 TPs. And thats a pretty conservative list. If you were factoring in aoe dmg taken by the raid and spreading renewing mists and then TFT uplift spam every jab, the dps drops down quite significantly, about where an atonement priest is at on live. Its not OP. Its nice. But the class was designed with hitting things to heal in mind. What we do on live is a sad representation of what a mistweaver fistweaving was supposed to be.

    My numbers in 490 gear with all int gems (very uncommon and hard to maintain a rotation longer than 3 mins without ooming) are 50k dps with a 1 hander healing weapon. 70k with an agi polearm. And thats taking powerstrikes and using the proc for a blackout kick in place of a tiger palm. No chi wave, no renewing mists. 70k sounds like a lot but that would result in some pretty sad healing numbers. Not to mention using the agi staff for the higher dmg drops chi wave healing by 20k PER BOUNCE.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Useless corner-case knowledge I know, but it's at least possible they'll implement a healing fist sometime, right? 3/5 healer classes can use it, same as several other types of weapons.
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=39763

  12. #52
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    So, I just tried fistweaving on a training dummy on live and on ptr. My damage is about five times higher on ptr than on live, thanks to onehand buff and muscle memory. It might be even higher, since instead of doing nothing and just autoattacking when your buffs are up and there is no greater raid damage, you will be tiger palming.

    Just some numbers: Tiger Palm and BK do about 80k noncrit with musclememory, jab does 7k, autoattacking 12k average noncrit.

    [Edit just for comparison]On live my tp does 12k noncrit, BK 24k, jab 5k and autoattacking avg 10k[/edit]

    In raids on live I am doing about 20-25k dps, usually competing with the tanks for the lower end of damage recount, if this would go live as it is on PTR that would mean I would be doing about 100k dps (but again, it's hard to actually calculate the raid buffed scaling from a target dummy test).
    If the healing still is as high as on live (or maybe even buffed - this is quite hard to test on a training dummy), this would have a drastical impact especially on 10 player raiding, where fistweavers could significantly contribute to raid damage requirements, benching - depending on the fight - pure healers or pure damagedealers.

    I really cannot imagine this will go live as it is right now.
    Why are jab and auto-attack, which should not have been affected by changes on the PTR, doing so much more on the PTR? I'm seeing the same thing with my completely ungemmed/unenchanted PTR gear (stripped all my enchants and gems in copy) doing equal or greater AA and Jab damage to my live gear, and it strikes me as odd. Are people putting sunder armor/physical vulnerability up on the PTR target dummies or do the PTR target dummies have lower armor than the live ones?

  13. #53
    Go to old theramore and try to see if you can reflect similar values on their dummies

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    Why are jab and auto-attack, which should not have been affected by changes on the PTR, doing so much more on the PTR? I'm seeing the same thing with my completely ungemmed/unenchanted PTR gear (stripped all my enchants and gems in copy) doing equal or greater AA and Jab damage to my live gear, and it strikes me as odd. Are people putting sunder armor/physical vulnerability up on the PTR target dummies or do the PTR target dummies have lower armor than the live ones?
    Way of the monk increases your one-handed damage by 70% on ptr (40% on live). No idea why jab does more damage, perhaps it is also affected by the 30% increase.
    There were no other people "using" my dummy, it was without any debuff.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Way of the monk increases your one-handed damage by 70% on ptr (40% on live). No idea why jab does more damage, perhaps it is also affected by the 30% increase.
    There were no other people "using" my dummy, it was without any debuff.
    If I'm not terribly mistaken, way of the monk does increase 1h damage by 70% on live, but ONLY for mistweavers since they can't dual wield.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    If I'm not terribly mistaken, way of the monk does increase 1h damage by 70% on live, but ONLY for mistweavers since they can't dual wield.
    +70% for 1h and +40% for 2h on live, but only autoattack.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    If I'm not terribly mistaken, way of the monk does increase 1h damage by 70% on live, but ONLY for mistweavers since they can't dual wield.
    Was this a hotfix? Because the tooltip says otherwise (40% on live and 70% on ptr), and I don't find it in the hotfix notes.

    [edit]You are right, it only applies when you are in stance of the wise serpent[/edit]
    Last edited by Puri; 2013-02-05 at 05:42 PM.

  18. #58
    What a pity, I really began to think the changes would go live:

    Mistweaver

    Muscle Memory buff increases the damage of your next Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick by 150%, down from 200%.

  19. #59
    It's a pretty insignificant nerf, brings my average raid buffed Tiger Palm down to about 120k as opposed to 160k. The only problem is it leaves eminence worse off if it's without compensation.
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  20. #60
    Chi wave which heals for about 60k a tick for 4 ticks is 240000
    Has been changed (nerfed) back to a 16k a tick, atleast in full tyranical thats what i am getting now and there is alot of reports on this in the official forums too.

    bad thing? no, it needed a nerf this big? we'll see...

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