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  1. #1

    10m Raiding setup. Need help.

    Hello everyone!
    So the guild im in will soon start our 10m raiding. This is our Setup.

    Prot Warr ( Me ) No offspecc.
    Prot Paladin - Retri Offspecc
    Resto Druid-
    Resto Shaman-
    Warrior Fury
    Hunter Survival
    Mage Arcane
    Monk Windwalker
    Rogue - Combat/Assa.

    We're thinking of recruiting a Affli lock / Frost dk / Disc/SP priest.
    I havent raided MoP 10 myself, so i cant tell if 3 or 2 healers is enough.

    Now to the question,
    Should you have 3 healers or is 2 enough?
    If 2 is enough, what class should be best with our team?

    /Demcrazy.

  2. #2
    There are some fights that simply require a 3rd healer (Or are made extremely trivial with a 3rd)

    If your goal is to clear content as effectively as possible, you will need 3 healers. Preferrably having 2 of them keep an OS (One with a melee OS and one with a ranged OS would be 100% ideal)

    But 3 healers, one of which has a strong DPS offspec, is a must for any serious 10man guild.

    Note: You also have 2 very strong Throughput healers (Raw healing) in a Druid and a Shaman. A Disc Priest would be a fantastic addition to that team.
    Last edited by moveth; 2013-02-03 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinftw92 View Post
    Should you have 3 healers or is 2 enough?
    If 2 is enough, what class should be best with our team?
    Depends on your gear level and the encounter, better to start with 3 and see how they do.

    Best healer to add to your team is without a doubt disc priest.

  4. #4
    If you run a good Disc and HPal you can 2 heal all of the tier except maybe tsulong you may want 3. I would say have either the Resto Shaman or the Disc Priest go mainly DPS and just switch when you need. Just my opinion.
    do what you feel.

  5. #5
    Field Marshal sunxsera's Avatar
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    Disc priest is by far the strongest healer right now - also Rdruid / Rshaman isn `t the best choice for many fights.
    I would go for disc / pala + Shaman as 3rd healer.

    In your case i would go for disc / shaman and the druid as 3rd healer.

    And yeah, in many fight you will need 3 Healers when gear is a problem

  6. #6
    Alright.
    I appreciate all your answers,
    Our healers are 470+ item lvld ( everyone in our 10 man squad will be )
    We're gonna go for your suggestion & try to recruit a disc priest!

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 04:25 PM ----------

    Also, our monk is thinking about having Healing as off specc, how are Monks healing right now?
    Is it more of a raid healer or a Main/off tank healer?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    If you run a good Disc and HPal you can 2 heal all of the tier except maybe tsulong you may want 3. I would say have either the Resto Shaman or the Disc Priest go mainly DPS and just switch when you need. Just my opinion.
    While this may be true for slightly more accomplished raiders, people starting will need 3 healers for a lot of bosses.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinftw92 View Post
    Alright.
    I appreciate all your answers,
    Our healers are 470+ item lvld ( everyone in our 10 man squad will be )
    We're gonna go for your suggestion & try to recruit a disc priest!

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 04:25 PM ----------

    Also, our monk is thinking about having Healing as off specc, how are Monks healing right now?
    Is it more of a raid healer or a Main/off tank healer?
    Monks are gonna be quite shiny next patch, him building an OS is a solid idea. And to build on the Disc suggestion, make damned certain your priest you snag can also play shadow flawlessly. Having a high dps output OS is a great addition for a 10m guild.

  9. #9
    Only heroic fight we've ever 3 healed is Empress. You can get by with 2 for now if they have perfect attendance, but you should get someone that can play DPS main spec and healing off spec soon. As for which class. Disc. Get a Disc. Have your Druid or Shaman play the off spec healer role, you want a Disc all the time.

  10. #10
    Yep, three heals is going to be important early on and your other tank needs to be ready to dps and dps well. There are a few one tank fights and those really will require your dps to push, especially the first couple times. Disc priest would be nice, there are a few fights while learning that 3 heals helps a ton. Only a couple fights demand 3 heals, unless you raid team is spot on all the time. Starting this late in the game, I would think you'll need 3. Also if you don't have 3 now, if the next tier requires 3 for some fights you'll be behind gear wise if you go to make a 3rd heal then. I do think affliction warlock is also fairly ideal dps for a few fights this tier. I play frost and our numbers are high, but we don't really game change the fights. Warlock + Blade Lord + 10m = easy. Disc is really nice right now, but check the patch notes they might end up with a swift nerf stick to line them in with holy, since they've stated they won't be buffing holy to bring it in line with disc. So disc is tops atm, but could easily get boned in 5.2.
    Last edited by Zoldor; 2013-02-03 at 08:05 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinftw92 View Post
    Alright.
    I appreciate all your answers,
    Our healers are 470+ item lvld ( everyone in our 10 man squad will be )
    We're gonna go for your suggestion & try to recruit a disc priest!

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 04:25 PM ----------

    Also, our monk is thinking about having Healing as off specc, how are Monks healing right now?
    Is it more of a raid healer or a Main/off tank healer?
    I've noticed that at lower gear levels mistweavers burn their mana quite fast.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    While this may be true for slightly more accomplished raiders, people starting will need 3 healers for a lot of bosses.
    This.

    People need to read OP, answers involving your personal experience on tsu'long and heroic fights don't help. This is a new group with a fairly low gear level, that probably won't reach those fights before the patch. Definitely going to need 3 healers.

  13. #13
    have a dps that can off spec heals as your 3rd healer.

    also, you're worrying too much about comp. it doesn't matter. especially considering you're only just starting now, and everyone will be overgeared for normal modes.

  14. #14
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Don't worry about your composition. If you get 10 decent people downing bosses is not a rocket science, which requires a certain comp (it helps to have certain classes, but anything is possible).
    Your hunter can bring the missing buffs if needed. Don't stress, just take what you have and give it a go.

    Just make sure you have a selection of people to choose from in case some of your raiders can't show up. Having few extra never hurts. But make sure that you don't leave those extras on a bench for too long.

    As for 2-3 healers... When we started MSV with around 460-470 ilvl then we did it with 3 healers. But if we hit enrage/got better gear then we switched to 2, and 2 healing entire MSV and 2 first in HoF. We are still progressing on normals though.

    also Rdruid / Rshaman isn `t the best choice for many fights.
    2 rdruid 2 healing say hi! - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i...m/healingDone/ and 2 rdruid and rshaman - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...ses&boss=63667
    It is not the best choice, but really. If your healers and DPS is good you can kill anything... Maybe it you need to put more effort into it, but...

    As for monks
    I've noticed that at lower gear levels mistweavers burn their mana quite fast.
    is rather true. Our MW is experimenting with different talents, reforges and things to find things that work for him.
    Some monk healing for you in rather intensive fights - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m...m/healingDone/

    My guild has selection of 5 healers, 2 tanks and 11 DPS for our 10m (though not all of them are available on each raid day), who we rotate according to the amount raided in a month. We've gotten this far (6/6 MSV N and 5/6 HoF N) w/o having a disc. priest along and going with weird comps (2 rdruids, 2 warriors...).
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-02-04 at 06:41 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished ||6/14 HC 25-man w/ my HC PUG
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinftw92 View Post
    Alright.
    I appreciate all your answers,
    Our healers are 470+ item lvld ( everyone in our 10 man squad will be )
    We're gonna go for your suggestion & try to recruit a disc priest!

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 04:25 PM ----------

    Also, our monk is thinking about having Healing as off specc, how are Monks healing right now?
    Is it more of a raid healer or a Main/off tank healer?
    You absolutely want 3 main spec healers in your raid, and have them all practice their dps offspecs, so you can pick the best comp for each fight.

    Also be aware that you are running 3 melee dps, which isn't great. Double plate/shield tank will mean slow gearing also, as will having half your raid on the Protector token. I would certainly be looking to pick up a Lock and a Disc.

  16. #16
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Also be aware that you are running 3 melee dps, which isn't great.
    What does people have against melee? If you don't raid in world/server first level, having "too many" melee shouldn't be an issue. There are no fight what requires you to have a certain amount of melee (don't know about ToEs, though, but HoF and MSV, not really).

    Let see
    Dogs - tanks have to move puppies anyway, melee chained together - don't see an issue
    Feng - ditching Wildfire spark or Arcane resonance can be bit downtime, but melee can do great DPS to "cover the hole"
    Gara'jal - reaching adds in spirit realm, shouldn't be an issue as all melee have something to boost speed or get closer to target
    Kings - having people to spread for Subetai's arrows shouldn't be an issue. Following the boss also not an issue. Kiting the "skull", minimal downtime
    Elagon - only "issue" I could see is reaching the sparks/pillars, but as with feng - running speed boosts/cap closers are there
    Will - melee just has to pay attention if they're on boss
    Vizier - huge hitbox, no problem dodging attunation
    Blade Lord - melee won't get windstep, stacking is easy
    Garalon - only issue I could see is here on selecting kiters, but 2 ranged/2 healer or 2 tank/2 healers kiting shouldn't be an issue
    Wind Lord - AoE, interrupts, occasional moving. Shouldn't be an issue
    Amber Shaper - don't see a issue at all

    We haven't killed anything else yet,but in general only issue could be the gear competition, but I don't see the problem why having 3 melee is a bad idea.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished ||6/14 HC 25-man w/ my HC PUG
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid

  17. #17
    We haven't killed anything else yet,but in general only issue could be the gear competition, but I don't see the problem why having 3 melee is a bad idea.
    For a group starting out normal modes this is certainly true. You won't be seeing much issues with comp or ranged/melee balance before heroics where the roles are more tightly distributed (e.g. too much melee on hc dogs is a pain especially on weeks with chains, even though entirely doable if you overgear it slightly). The more crucial thing on hc's becomes utility stuff like soaking and dispell capabilites. For the time being, the more important thing is people being comfortable playing their specs and having some alternatives for dps/healing or dps/tank offspecs depending on fight requirements.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kevinftw92 View Post
    Hello everyone!
    Prot Warr ( Me ) No offspecc.
    Prot Paladin - Retri Offspecc
    Resto Druid-
    Resto Shaman-
    Warrior Fury
    Hunter Survival
    Mage Arcane
    Monk Windwalker
    Rogue - Combat/Assa.

    We're thinking of recruiting a Affli lock / Frost dk / Disc/SP priest.
    Maybe you should think about Arms offspecc? Some encounters only need 1 Tank, and Retri is currently much weaker than Arms (Or even Furry).

    Recruit Disc/SP and/or Warlock. You'll need 3 people which are capable of healing.

  19. #19
    You need at least 12-13 people to successfully raid in 10-man. You need at least 4 people capable of healing and 3 capable of tanking. This means most of your hybrid classes should have a raid viable off-spec. You need this because people will be absent, disconnect etc. It will require you to swap people in and out for bosses and often maybe taking lesser players in, but it's better than cancelling raids.
    Currently the OP classes are disc priest, arcane mage and affliction warlock. Also, I would not recomment getting any more melee. You have 3 already and there are still a lot of fights which heavily favour ranged dps.
    Last edited by Zubacz; 2013-02-04 at 10:46 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by samsine View Post
    Maybe you should think about Arms offspecc? Some encounters only need 1 Tank, and Retri is currently much weaker than Arms (Or even Furry).
    Retri is currently close enough to other melee specs, while Arms is way behind in parses by average (some sample bias there of course). Retri favours different items compared to the fury warrior already in raid, so gearing the retri would be easier than a second fury warrior in your proposed comp.

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