This is the crisis facing china

**Crysthalica** · 2013-01-31, 12:14 AM

I was in Shanghai back in 2009, and it was always "cloudy" from all the pollution. You could often see the sun still and it was really hot, but no real sunshine. No surprise this is happening.

**Cattaclysmic** · 2013-01-31, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Crysthalica

I was in Shanghai back in 2009, and it was always "cloudy" from all the pollution. You could often see the sun still and it was really hot, but no real sunshine. No surprise this is happening.

I saw the weather forecast for mumbai the other day. It said "21 degrees, smoke" (instead of rainy, sunny, clouded)
I still dont know why. If it was due to smog or a fire...

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 01:18 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Zhangfei

Oh goddamnit do I have to create the bloody genophage again?

Someone else might have gotten it wrong.

**Commissarr** · 2013-01-31, 12:20 AM

China will get through it.

Changes need to happen, no doubt about that much.

Still one of my favourite countries.

**bungeebungee** · 2013-01-31, 01:28 AM

It's fairly simple, it's winter and people are burning cylinders of compressed coal powder by the truckload. I haven't seen any sign of heating oil being used here.

I live in an apartment with nicely designed, modern radiators and the complex is served by a central boiler plant. It may be difficult for me to regulate the heat in my apartment, but the heating works so well that I can barely stand to wear a summer weight shirt at home. Unfortunately, the blasted compressed coal is traditional here and a lot of people use it. All that coal smoke is going straight into the air, with no scrubbers, because it is burned at the household level. The further from the city center one gets, the more you'll find people just burning those cylinders of compressed coal powder in cast iron stoves. They're viewed with a kind of nostalgia or fondness, something like fireplaces and wood burning stoves in the US. I know several restaurants with perfectly good heat that still use the things.

Not only is heat being generated by coal, but the heat isn't conserved and so even more coal gets burned. It doesn't help that "fresh" air is supposed to be a virtue, so the average window in China (if one can get the Chinese to keep it closed) is slightly more effective than cheesecloth for stopping wind, and winds in Northeast China are often fairly strong. Most buildings in the region are brick and the local idea of insulation is ... thicker brick walls.

The air this winter has been particularly bad. Normally, we have strong winter winds that clear the air, but this year we haven't.

**StayTuned** · 2013-01-31, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by checking facts

that guy is the smartest guy ever. who'd have ever thought about selling air? he's gonna make a fortune on that.

BRB, I'm gonna cause extreme pollution on my country.

He's donating everything to charity.

But yeah, China is pretty much fucked right now. They better get this shit done right or else we will see people suffering to the extreme because of this.

**Commissarr** · 2013-01-31, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by StayTuned

He's donating everything to charity.

But yeah, China is pretty much fucked right now. They better get this shit done right or else we will see people suffering to the extreme because of this.

Emerging industrialization of a nation resulting in pollution is nothing new.

They will get past it.

**StayTuned** · 2013-01-31, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by Commissarr

Emerging industrialization of a nation resulting in pollution is nothing new.

They will get past it.

Hopefully. Sucks to see all those people suffer because their government is too retarded to anticipate that if they keep on building factories like that, pollution will come hand in hand.

**Alenarien** · 2013-01-31, 01:56 AM

The rise of China's industrialism coincides with the rise of cleaner technology. If/when fossil fuels (such as coal, which China depends heavily upon at the moment) become more expensive, less efficient and less easy to produce than their cleaner counterparts (Solar/wind/tidal energy, etc), then I would expect this smog to gradually disappear.

**Commissarr** · 2013-01-31, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Alenarien

The rise of China's industrialism coincides with the rise of cleaner technology. If/when fossil fuels (such as coal, which China depends heavily upon at the moment) become more expensive, less efficient and less easy to produce than their cleaner counterparts (Solar/wind/tidal energy, etc), then I would expect this smog to gradually disappear.

Absolutely. China is the number one investor in green energy research as well.

**Alenarien** · 2013-01-31, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by Commissarr

Absolutely. China is the number one investor in green energy research as well.

I wouldn't say we're there just yet though; namely due to supply and demand. Lobster for example used to be seen as absolute trash by fisherman, and was usually thrown overboard when caught. A few endeavoring chefs however found out that this rather large, ugly looking crustacean was in fact quite delicious and so, people demanded it more and more, and so too did fishermen/chefs demand more for providing it.

China's energy sources tend to be in their 'pre/post lobster boom' states, so to speak. Nobody wants coal anymore and so, just as a few might have known how tasty lobster was before it became popular, so too are China left with an energy source that no-one really wants anymore, which thus makes it a very cheap energy source too.

This smog issue may well get worse before it gets better.

**Kurioxan** · 2013-01-31, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Celticmoon

But don't they have one of the longest life expectancies compared to other races?

Dont think it to be racial, more cultural (food, social habits and so forth)

**Commissarr** · 2013-01-31, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by Kurioxan

Dont think it to be racial, more cultural (food, social habits and so forth)

It's the green tea, I tell you!

It is quite nice and extremely good for you

**obdigore** · 2013-01-31, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Reeve

London went through this, and eventually got out of it. China will too. I'm much more concerned about their aging workforce and economy propped up with unnecessary infrastructure spending. But I think these are all challenges China will work through.

Don't forget the fact that they have a ton of money coming into the country and their currency's worth should rise to the point that it isn't a good business decision to base all that manufacturing in China anymore. Or they generation coming up that is around 70% male because of their population laws and culture. That isn't going to be good.

**Kurioxan** · 2013-01-31, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Commissarr

It's the green tea, I tell you!

It is quite nice and extremely good for you

i drink quite a lot of green tea, but it is also the amount of veggies and fruit in their cuisin, western food (aside from highly processed nowadays) is very based on high meat high carbs low veggies (aside from Mediterranean diet which is considered to be very healthy)

And that, is unhealthy...
Always makes me laugh when my chinese friends complains about people asking her about tea's to lose weight, she always goes on a rant that tea is not enough, you need more veggies and less crap, the fiber is very important

**Commissarr** · 2013-01-31, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Kurioxan

i drink quite a lot of green tea, but it is also the amount of veggies and fruit in their cuisin, western food (aside from highly processed nowadays) is very based on high meat high carbs low veggies (aside from Mediterranean diet which is considered to be very healthy)

And that, is unhealthy...
Always makes me laugh when my chinese friends complains about people asking her about tea's to lose weight, she always goes on a rant that tea is not enough, you need more veggies and less crap, the fiber is very important

Indeed. Chinese eat a very veggie based diet. Here in the West, we have vegetables to compliment a large amount of meat. It's the other way round there.

**Afrospinach** · 2013-01-31, 05:24 AM

Should look up what happened in mexico city the last couple of decades or so, they have been pretty effective in defeating their smog. China could do the same in their cities most likely

**Reeve** · 2013-01-31, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by obdigore

Don't forget the fact that they have a ton of money coming into the country and their currency's worth should rise to the point that it isn't a good business decision to base all that manufacturing in China anymore. Or they generation coming up that is around 70% male because of their population laws and culture. That isn't going to be good.

And wages in the manufacturing sector have been increasing 20% year over year for the last few years too.

**Polio** · 2013-01-31, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by checking facts

that guy is the smartest guy ever. who'd have ever thought about selling air? he's gonna make a fortune on that.

BRB, I'm gonna cause extreme pollution on my country.

he has a copy of spaceballs on vhs?

**Dreyen** · 2013-01-31, 05:47 AM

They talked about it.. apparantly, china is like 3-4x over the limit of what is considered unhealthy air, disgusting ;/

**mvallas** · 2013-01-31, 06:11 AM

I loved what John Stewart said about us compared to this issue in China.

"Things may be bad, but at least we can't chew our air."

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