Below is my recent contribution to the PTR thread, taht I wanted to share here since it echoes a lot of sentiments in this thread already:
I was going to chime in while catching up on reading, but I found this post that pretty much covered my bases. I wanted to touch on a few items, as I think Brutus really covered a lot here.
1)I also appreciate the acknowledgement that ret is in a bad place in terms of PVP viability, however this change is really nothing in the grand scheme. You offer a 2min CD cleanse, which consequently uses one of our only unique abilities for CC break/smart play (BoSac). Cleanse is something Holy already has, AND it can be self-targetted, while BoSac cannot. So, basically, this helps our own survival zero (or even negative, if you count losing the ability to break out of CC) and yields no new utility over a H Pal. I agree with the suggestion to move this to BoSalv, as the button may as well be off your bars in PVP otherwise. Salv CAN be self cast, and we still retain the utility of BoSac this way.
1.5) I’d also lobby to have HoF return to the stun break, but perhaps for the Ret ONLY. It’d be nice to have it break stuns on allies, but with clemency I can see this perhaps being QQ-fodder. If you REALLY want to be kind, you could have it work like this: Heart of the Crusader (Ret-only passive skill) – Your Hand of Freedom now removes stun effects on the target. Glyph of Freedom (Ret only) – Your HoF now removes stuns AND fears, but only on yourself (will not remove stuns on allies). That’s a situational and fun choice.
2) I’d also like to see WoG be more of a real heal, instead of its current incarnation as a “delayer of the inevitable”. This could be done in a few ways, but I think that a return to the cooldown+increased heal idea would be worthwhile. Again, this could be ret only (either by talent/skill or by set-bonus) to have WoG now be granted a 100% increase effectiveness, but now has a 10sec CD. OR: Using WOG now requires 3 HoPo, but does not consume them. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds. The second option would allow back to back WOGs for 3 HoPo every 10 sec, or WOG -> TV if you don’t need as much healing.
3) Again, agreeing with the above quote, our sustained (in PVP) is laughable. In PVE, it is competitive, but quite boring. Inquisition is incredibly monotonous, lackluster, and easy in PVE, while hugely cumbersome and inefficient in PVP. Giving DP as baseline COULD solve this issue, and would add variety and spice (and increase the skill-cap) in PVE while allowing better Inq/WOG management in PVP. As it sits now, DP is a terribly boring talent, and is rarely taken by any fairly experienced player in PVP OR PVE, due to our reliance on cooldowns to do any damage. HA is just too good (or SW, if PVE), too reliable and I’d say too fun. I’m not asking for a nerf to SW/HA to make them suck on the same level as DP, but I think that giving DP to the spec (or class) as a whole makes more sense overall and would add in a fun element to the spec. There have been many suggestions on what to replace DP with; personally I’d like to see a PASSIVE item in that slot (cause we don’t need any more cooldown buttons!), like Monk Power Strikes: Holy Fury – One of your abilities (AS for prot, Exo for ret, HS for holy) grants an additional Holy Power on use. This, coupled with a baseline DP would give lots of fun to the class, and give a fun choice of talents in the tier for people who DON’T WANT MORE COOLDOWNS, but do want a more complex rotation.
4) Yes. Sweet baby Jesus yes. We need more survival. I know that GC has postulated that once warrior D stance is toned down, melee will all be more or less equal, and perhaps that is true. However, even if it is, nearly ALL ranged options (cept for our friends, the ele shams) will have a significantly higher amount of passive dmg redux. Plate used to mean something, before everything was homogenized, in that you took less dmg from melee at the cost of being ranged fodder. Now, we get trained by melee and ranged alike, with really nothing to show for it in terms of counters. Bubble is a DEAD SPELL for rets. It is [nearly] instantly removed when used (since it’s our ONLY reliable source of dmg reduction, it is insanely easy to telegraph) by 2 of the most common classes in PVP, while consequently nerfing our damage if it remains up. DivProt needs a glyph to be of any use in RBGs where there is mixed damage, and even so a 20% cooldown is just barely above what ranged classes have PASSIVELY. Also, silence/stun prevents any use of DivProt. This is where the HoF change I suggested above could at least help. If we ARE meant to be the Holy-Warrior, I’d like to see some sort of Retributive ability returned to the Ret spec. This could be a short CD group buff that redirects a portion of damage taken (a la ret aura/E4aE), or an ability that allows the Paladin and/or group’s damage to passively convert a small % of damage done into healing for a few seconds (a la Ancestra Guidance…call it Guidance of the Light or something).
5) I know this wasn’t discussed above, but I feel compelled to post this here as it’s an idea that I’ve been mulling over anyway in terms of “things Ret can get that will help PVP without affecting PVE at all”:
Give TV (and/or DS…not sure, DS may be OP) the denounce debuff that H Pal currently gets. Giving TV a debuff on the target that prevents them from critting heals or damage for 5-8 sec would have ZERO effect in a PVE environment, but in PVP it would allow for some pressure relief when we are getting trained, AND/OR some additional pressure when going for the kill on that healer. It makes sense from a class archetype/lore perspective and would be some useful utility to bring a ret for. We already have to talent for a snare (or give up passive damage), something no other melee has to do. We have no hard CC outside of repent (LOL) to help peel. Given that we have a decently high uptime on target, allowing us to reduce pressure on ourselves or teammates via a crit negating debuff would give us some unique, useful utility that may earn us an RBG spot.