[5.2] Do you hate warriors neverending stuns? Say hello to DK's

[Machomaije]

Asphyxiate on 30 sec cd?

I will be the first to welcome this insanely op Darth Vader death grip every 30 sec.


Looking forward to play my Unholy DK with Gnaw and this 30 sec cd stun. ByeBye healers

[Rgthreex]

You seem to forget Asphyxiate is in the same tier as chillblanis and DA

[Flaks]

So I guess broken op rogues and monks weren't enough.

Oh and uh dk's are right up there with 5.1 warriors defensively with blood pres + conversion competing with defensive stance + second wind.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 03:54 AM ----------

You seem to forget Asphyxiate is in the same tier as chillblanis and DA

That doesn't matter. While that tier is overall great, a 30 second stun/silence is undeniably better than the other two choices.

[Deleted]

This is a completely insane and idiotic change. Strangulate, brain freeze, ghul stun, remorseless winter, 30 second cd 5 second stun will allow death knight to kill all casters without having to put in any kind of effort whatsoever. This will allow them to easily solo healers. Hell death knights build up an insane ammount of pressure with their sustained damage and now they can stun a player 5 out of 30 seconds.

So as icing on the cake to all their other stuff they can completly lock out a player for 1/6 of the battle. CC is already out of control, this absolutely isn't needed.

[worsthitmanNa]

Two death grips, mind freeze, and now a 30 second stun gg shamans and priest.

[Ieft]

So I guess broken op rogues and monks weren't enough.

Oh and uh dk's are right up there with 5.1 warriors defensively with blood pres + conversion competing with defensive stance + second wind.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 03:54 AM ----------



That doesn't matter. While that tier is overall great, a 30 second stun/silence is undeniably better than the other two choices.

Asphyxiate is shit. It replaces strang.

Not worth it.

[Venaliter]

Asphyxiate is shit. It replaces strang.

Not worth it.

Clueless. 30 sec Silence is amazing.

[bals]

Clueless. 30 sec Silence is amazing.

it only silences IF the target is immune to stuns

[Resentful]

Clueless. 30 sec Silence is amazing.

Wait hold on I'm not a DK but strangulate is the silence and Asphyxiate is just a plain stun too different things no?

[Ieft]

Clueless. 30 sec Silence is amazing.

Clueless it's not a silence and dr's with ghoul / remorseless winter.

Seriously try being correct before rocking a clueless.

If it was a stand alone move, it would be amazing.

[Svarbald]

This game is such a joke. honestly how fucking dumb is GC?

Locks and Mages get blanket silence back? You mean two classes that were owning pvp to begin with?

Next patch Chaos Bolt will be insta-cast.

[Venaliter]

Wait hold on I'm not a DK but strangulate is the silence and Asphyxiate is just a plain stun too different things no?

Indeed, I misspoke. I meant Stun, I typed Silence.

[Machomaije]

This is a completely insane and idiotic change. Strangulate, brain freeze, ghul stun, remorseless winter, 30 second cd 5 second stun will allow death knight to kill all casters without having to put in any kind of effort whatsoever. This will allow them to easily solo healers. Hell death knights build up an insane ammount of pressure with their sustained damage and now they can stun a player 5 out of 30 seconds.

So as icing on the cake to all their other stuff they can completly lock out a player for 1/6 of the battle. CC is already out of control, this absolutely isn't needed.

Keep in mind that it replaces Strangulate

[anderekel]

If people think that all dk's, or even most dk's are going to take this they're sorely mistaken. The problem is going to become that if we don't take death's advance or chilblains we'll have no mobility. We won't be able to sit on a target which is how unholy makes it's living, not huge burst, training targets into the ground and spreading diseases.

Secondly, people are saying that it's so bad because it'll be 30 seconds, so it'll be the same as fist of justice? Not something that anyone seems to complain about even though ret cooldowns are amazing (yes I know that their sustained is majorly lacking).

Most Unholy DK's are probably going to be taking roiling blood and chilblains with the change to reaping. The reaping change frees up frost runes to be used for icy touch dispels and blood runes will be for boiling blood to spread diseases.

Finally, to the guy that said that blood presence/conversion (though I haven't tried conversion on the ptr at all) is going to be the same as defensive stance/second wind is sorely mistaken. Defensive stance is currently 25% damage reduction and no loss of damage done. Blood presence is 10% damage reduction and some extra stam, however we lose rune regen or a ton of frost strikes (big damage loss) depending on frost or unholy. Second wind is a completely free, unstoppable HOT while conversion costs runic power and has to be triggered by the DK (again, loses damage with the runic power use).

Actually, that last comment wasn't finally. A big thing I notice is that people are acting like the DK will be able to do this unhindered. You have to remember, DK's aren't really getting any survivability buffs, we're still going to be squishy, so we're still going to be trained into the ground. You do have partners to stop a dk during a stun.

[kosechi]

the only reason to take asphyxiate over the the other two talents on that tier is because you enjoy watching people hang in mid air clutching their throats, which seriously, who doesn't enjoy watching that occasionally?

the shorter cd might make asphyxiate attractive to dks playing with casters, maybe shadowcleave? but generally the other two talents are much stronger.

remorseless winter is very strong, but its also one of the most telegraphed abilities in the game, timmy's AI is still atrocious.

i actually think this is a good buff.

[Xevz]

DA will still be better since there will probably will be more rogues in 5.2. Being able to move at 70% or 100% with a rogue on your butt is gonna be the difference that will either make dks viable in 5.2 or flop like in cata against them.

[Nangz]

All in all, asphyxiate is still a pretty bad choice compared to the other two. It doesn't work with DK cc chains and actually makes it harder to manage. With the silence you can prevent a healer from dispelling your remorseless winter. If you use asphyxiate, you get a DR'd remoresless winter. Its decent, but its hard to pass up Death's Advance or Chillbains.

[Machomaije]

Actually, that last comment wasn't finally. A big thing I notice is that people are acting like the DK will be able to do this unhindered. You have to remember, DK's aren't really getting any survivability buffs, we're still going to be squishy, so we're still going to be trained into the ground. You do have partners to stop a dk during a stun.

We dont know that yet Hopefully Blizzard will hear DK's prayers and give some sort of survivability. DK's already got a lot of survival cds, but one of the major problems is not being able to use them while silenced.

I'm not sure if I hope this goes live. Because if it is, I think we can say goodbye to the buffs DK's really want, survivability buffs. But we all know Blizzard, when something needs a buff badly they buff something else instead.

[Rorke]

If people think that all dk's, or even most dk's are going to take this they're sorely mistaken. The problem is going to become that if we don't take death's advance or chilblains we'll have no mobility. We won't be able to sit on a target which is how unholy makes it's living, not huge burst, training targets into the ground and spreading diseases.

Secondly, people are saying that it's so bad because it'll be 30 seconds, so it'll be the same as fist of justice? Not something that anyone seems to complain about even though ret cooldowns are amazing (yes I know that their sustained is majorly lacking).

Most Unholy DK's are probably going to be taking roiling blood and chilblains with the change to reaping. The reaping change frees up frost runes to be used for icy touch dispels and blood runes will be for boiling blood to spread diseases.

Finally, to the guy that said that blood presence/conversion (though I haven't tried conversion on the ptr at all) is going to be the same as defensive stance/second wind is sorely mistaken. Defensive stance is currently 25% damage reduction and no loss of damage done. Blood presence is 10% damage reduction and some extra stam, however we lose rune regen or a ton of frost strikes (big damage loss) depending on frost or unholy. Second wind is a completely free, unstoppable HOT while conversion costs runic power and has to be triggered by the DK (again, loses damage with the runic power use).

Actually, that last comment wasn't finally. A big thing I notice is that people are acting like the DK will be able to do this unhindered. You have to remember, DK's aren't really getting any survivability buffs, we're still going to be squishy, so we're still going to be trained into the ground. You do have partners to stop a dk during a stun.

There really isn't a trade off though in terms of resources when you pvp as Unholy. I mean yeah, you lose runic power from Conversion but Conversion should only be used defensively when you're running away from melee or LoSing a caster while spamming chains of ice.

Yeah sure you lose runes, but losing runes as Unholy isn't terrible since Death Coil doesn't require melee range like Frost Strike does. You can basically spam ice of chains, use one death coil to get two charges of blood tap and wait for runes to come up within 9/sec(blood presence) 7seconds (Unholy presence) and rinse and repeat the cycle until you're ready to deal pressure.

The point I'm trying to make here is that I can understand why conversion doesn't work for you because you play Frost. Frost does terribly with conversion because to be blunt, Frost really can't play defensive without sacrificing a lot of its damage because of Frost Strike requiring melee range. Not only that, but Frost doesn't perk well with Death's Advance because of Frost Presence. Death's Advance is a huge defensive capability for DK's against melee. Without Death's Advance, Frost DK's are easy prey for any melee because they're stuck at 100% movement speed and Chillblains isn't very useful when it can be dispelled all the time.

Also, Unlike Frost, Unholy has the advantage of 15% movement speed plus another 10% from DA and the speed boost every 30 seconds. You can actually escape fights at will and Blood Presence is going to much better than 5.2 Defensive Stance in terms of Survivability due to the stamina buff it gives over the extra 5% damage reduction Defensive Stance gives.

I would also like to add that Frost and needs constant melee uptime to deal pressure to their target. Unholy has the advantage of swapping from a melee playstyle to more of a defensive caster style. The Ghoul, Gargoyle(which is free now) and dots alone can put enough pressure without the DK even being remotely close to the target.

I said this before in another thread, the fact that Unholy Death knights have access to Unholy Presence, Deaths Advance, Desecrated Ground, Trinket, Icebound Fortitude, 60% ranged slow, Conversion and a pet stun, make them probably the hardest class to lock down and the best non tank anti rogue spec in the game. Conversion just makes it so that they can heal while running away. At least a Warrior you could catch and lock down. Oh yeah, you gain 15 runic power while stunned. Its not much, but it does make a difference.

One minute Strangulate just adds the icing to the cake.

[Deleted]

So I guess broken op rogues and monks weren't enough.

Oh and uh dk's are right up there with 5.1 warriors defensively with blood pres + conversion competing with defensive stance + second wind.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 03:54 AM ----------



That doesn't matter. While that tier is overall great, a 30 second stun/silence is undeniably better than the other two choices.

I still think Chillblains is the best by a mile.