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  1. #21
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    I don't think guilds should be punished for poorly written encounters. If you release an encounter that is downright buggy to the point you can force a boss to basically shut down, it all falls to the programmers and devs. With that said, how exactly is it an exploit when they use a game mechanic to counter what the boss is doing? So we're all supposed to conform to a set methodology in order to "compete" against one another, but the second someone finds something within the rules that just outright blows the competition away it's an exploit...yea totally makes sense. Maybe we should do this at things like the Olympics too. For you know, the spirit of fairness that we're instilling into child that basically says it's ok you don't have to try hard, you'll get your shiny trophy in the end anyways.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    Ahw not again.

    Been thinking of reactivating but all the people i know that play/played it tell me it's dead
    It isn't. Add to that, it is a great game.

    More importantly, what is 'dead' to you? less than 10 million? The WoW died with Cata. When content stops rolling out? When some magical number is passed?

    As long as the servers have communities, and the servers are maintained, it isn't dead. Add to that, the fact that Trion pushes content faster than all its competition and has the best customer service.


    As far as being on topic;

    It doesn't matter if this affects you personally or not, exploiting is a bane of the multiplayer genre. Being fair and equal is something you should pretty much count on. Honor and integrity should be a standard in the community. World firsts don't matter to the ones who don't raid, or ones who don't fight for those accolades, but in the race for first, getting it properly should be the only way, out of respect for competition. Cheating for world firsts would be like cheating at the olympics, or even against your best friend at checkers, in a smaller tight-knit community like Rift vs the masses of what WoW has become.

    What sense of accomplishment is it really, if you cheat your way to something? If you were running a race, and skipped half the course, there is no merit in that.

    I'm not much of one for banning though, the community shunning them and having all loot and accolades being removed, and suspended from entering the instances for a few weeks seems more fitting to me.

    I feel it is a bit on Trion that they allowed it to go live with that exploit. Preventing the exploiters from testing? I think that is also a mistake, let them test, watch them closely, and use their ability to find exploits to fix and patch them before they ever hit live.

    One thing though, and I believe this for any game, is that if you participate in Beta testing the instances, you should in no way, qualify for world firsts. It is a tough stance, because the world's best, are the ones that need to test and abuse the fights, but, I think the fights themselves on Beta should come with an NDA, to not be lifted until the first live kill (ofc, with people who've never been on beta). This would bring true progression back to cutting edge raiding. The combination of fights never seen before, with no guides, no videos, and no one with any experience of the instance at all. The world first races would mean a bit more to me, but as it stands, the people have already have many practice runs, set up strategies, and are far too prepared for something that should be 'new'.


    In the end, don't care though, doesn't effect my gameplay any longer, since I rarely raid these days on any game; the long hours and work like schedule/commitment just doesn't thrill me, the reward/thrill of accomplishment no longer is great enough to outweigh the cost of real life time, effort, and scheduling. Though I can still understand why others do it, and can respect it, as long as they live up to the spirit of competition, which exploiters, definitely do not.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    Well at the end of the day its impacting the RIFT community
    It affects a small portion of the community that is also going for world first and/or a portion of the community that posts on forums. In other words, maybe 1-5% of the community. The vast majority of players who don't visit forums and don't compete for world firsts really don't give a damn. I know I don't anymore, this kinda stuff used to bother me in WoW when I thought that maybe, one day, I could be a part of that community. Then I grew up and realize who really cares.

    For those claiming it is not an exploit though, really? You're gonna support this? It's Trion's fault? It's well known that pets are supposed to be a tank when you are soloing, not intended to be able to tank bosses in dungeons, much less raids, much less the current most difficult boss in the game. You are obviously meant to have a tank or 2 or 3 in your raid comp and fights are obviously designed that way. This is clearly an exploit and if you can't see that, wow.

    That said, I still don't care. They got the attention they wanted, and banning will do no good. They already pissed off the people they wanted to piss off, they already got the attention they so clearly did not get as children. The ban will actually probably make them happier, then they can go and act all pissed off on forums over it and get even more attention. Just ignore these stupid pricks and move on with your life. You'll be better for it.
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  4. #24
    High Overlord Ziddy's Avatar
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    I don't see this as an exploit. As others have said, pets have the ability to tank and have been used to tank boss encounters for years, not just in rift but in other MMOs too. As far as I see it, this is simply a clever use of game mechanics and a valid tactic to defeating the boss.

    All of the people claiming to have lost respect for certain people because of this should probably take a long hard look in the mirror.
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  5. #25
    It's perfectly fine that some people don't care about the RIFT Endgame raiding community, but you shouldn't act so surpirsed that others do care about it, after all Endgame raiding is a very big time investment for a lot of people, it's what makes us log on daily and get the enjoyment out of the game.

    The Endgame raiding scene is a platform for both fun and competition, competition doesn't work with 'cheaters'. If you don't understand the fundamental competitiveness that comes from the progression 'race,' then it's natural for you to not understand the frustrations of the community and be able to relate to this.

    I also agree whether or not using a pet to tank is a bit of a 'grey area' in terms of an exploit, but the Matriach Kill, which allowed them to actually get to regulos is without a doubt is a exploit.
    Last edited by Seatin; 2013-01-31 at 04:12 PM.
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  6. #26
    Another long known by "insiders" exploit that exists in the game is that the friendly npc buff from goloch can be "cheeeezed" to become a perma-buff (you can even log off die, go do WFs, experts, kill regulos do FT speedruns and all that cool stuff some very "creative" ppl have been doing with it). It was reported ages ago, have no clue if it's been fixed by now tho since we haven't tried to reproduce since we found it (and reported it).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by zeropeorth View Post
    I'm not much of one for banning though, the community shunning them and having all loot and accolades being removed, and suspended from entering the instances for a few weeks seems more fitting to me.
    I was in NQ, they want to be known for exploiting and want to be hated. They love and crave the attention, shunning them will do nothing but make them do this more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zdain View Post
    I don't think guilds should be punished for poorly written encounters. If you release an encounter that is downright buggy to the point you can force a boss to basically shut down, it all falls to the programmers and devs. With that said, how exactly is it an exploit when they use a game mechanic to counter what the boss is doing? So we're all supposed to conform to a set methodology in order to "compete" against one another, but the second someone finds something within the rules that just outright blows the competition away it's an exploit...yea totally makes sense. Maybe we should do this at things like the Olympics too. For you know, the spirit of fairness that we're instilling into child that basically says it's ok you don't have to try hard, you'll get your shiny trophy in the end anyways.
    So you're saying that powerstone stacking wasn't an exploit?

  8. #28
    End game guilds don't care about right or wrong, they only care about killing the boss. Their mentality is "If I don't take advantage of this, someone else will and we won't be #1". do you really think they'd report something like that? lol, no they wouldn't.

    that being said, i don't see it as an exploit to have your pet tanking the boss. that, however, isn't the issue. the issue is with the pet tanking, mechanics get ignored. i don't really care, but it's pretty obvious when something you wipe on dozens of times all of a sudden becomes so much easier...it probably isn't intended.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by chocobo606 View Post
    End game guilds don't care about right or wrong, they only care about killing the boss. Their mentality is "If I don't take advantage of this, someone else will and we won't be #1". do you really think they'd report something like that? lol, no they wouldn't.
    Really? My guild says otherwise. We report exploits and bugs and then never use them. Learn facts before posting please.

  10. #30
    sounds like a unique use of in game mechanics. Oversite on Trions part.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by chocobo606 View Post
    End game guilds don't care about right or wrong, they only care about killing the boss. Their mentality is "If I don't take advantage of this, someone else will and we won't be #1". do you really think they'd report something like that? lol, no they wouldn't.
    Don't paint all progression focused guilds with the same brush.

    There are plenty of folks willing to take 4th-20th position rather than cheat at it.

    Considering the amount of bugs, wacky and uncertain mechanics since like... River of Souls, I'd say there is more than fair number of players unwilling to cheese an encounter.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome fooliuscaesar13's Avatar
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    I don't really see how this is an exploit.
    They are using a pet to tank a boss and to avoid damage on said boss. Nothing in that sentence screams "cheated". Just because Trion didn't intend for this boss fight to be done in this manner ... doesn't mean it's an exploit.
    Whether you like NQ or not, there is a big difference between stacking consumables that aren't meant to be stacked (which is an obvious manner of cheating) and having a pet tank a boss that 1-shots players.

  13. #33
    This would be clever+unique and all were it not for the fact it was reported numerous of times on the alpha forum aswell as through other developer channels. Pretty sure NQ had one or two players in there, but I guess they won't make that mistake again

    It is also an exploit; had NQ asked Trion they would've been told so.
    Last edited by Pawnish; 2013-01-31 at 06:10 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by fooliuscaesar13 View Post
    There is a big difference between stacking consumables that aren't meant to be stacked (which is an obvious manner of cheating) and having a pet tank a boss that 1-shots players.
    Consumables aren't meant to be stacked, 40,000 damage dealt to a player isn't supposed to deal 0 damage to a pet.

    When you stack consumables, you effectively increase the size of your raid by giving you extra heals and extra dps.

    When you have a pet tank Regulos, you effectively increase the size of your raid by giving you extra slots for dps since you don't need tank heals.

    Logic, people....logic

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by fooliuscaesar13 View Post
    Just because Trion didn't intend for this boss fight to be done in this manner ... doesn't mean it's an exploit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia: Exploit(video gaming)
    An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia: Exploit(video gaming)
    Game mechanicsTaking advantage of the systems that make up the gameplay. A game mechanics exploit is not a bug—it is working as designed, but at the same time is not working as intended.
    In other words, the simple fact that Trion did not intend it makes it an exploit, by definition of the word as used when talking about video games.

    The definition of an exploit is something not intended by the developers. "Clever use of game mechanics" when not intended by devs is an exploit. Only the devs can say if it was intended or not, however, this is clearly not intended.

    Pet's were designed to be able to tank for solo play and take AoE DPS so they are not completely worthless on boss fights when they are DPSing because a tank is presumably present. An unintended side effect of this is that when a boss deals only AoE damage, a pet can tank it.

    It is an exploit and they should have their Achieves and Gear stripped for using it. Other than that, stop giving them attention, arguing one way or the other, getting mad at them. This is just the reaction they want. Ignore them, let Trion strip them, then ignore their bitching. They do it just to get you mad. They say things just to piss you off. Either defending them or bashing them, it splits the community. If you ignore it, let Trion handle it and move on, the game will be a much better place.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2013-01-31 at 06:35 PM.
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  16. #36
    The Matriarch thing sounds like an exploit. Using a cleave immune pet to tank a boss that only cleaves doesn't sound exploity in any way.

    Blizzard recently posted a discussion on what they consider exploits and what they consider creative use of game mechanics in raids. The Regulos thing doesn't sound like it would fall under an exploit in their definition.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    The Matriarch thing sounds like an exploit. Using a cleave immune pet to tank a boss that only cleaves doesn't sound exploity in any way.

    Blizzard recently posted a discussion on what they consider exploits and what they consider creative use of game mechanics in raids. The Regulos thing doesn't sound like it would fall under an exploit in their definition.
    That's great, they did not design this game so they cannot say what is or is not intended in this game. Since the definition of an exploit is whether or not the developers intended it or not and Blizzard did not develop this game. Using another game as an example in this game is apples to oranges, especially one with an entire different idea on how end game raiding and gearing should work.
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  18. #38
    Well, companies can call anything they want an exploit. Arenanet banned people for buying ingredients off a vendor, crafting something with it, and vendoring it for a profit and called that an exploit.

    It's not like they used any special trick to make the pet immune to the boss. They just sent the pet in and had it tank. But hey if Trion wants to call that an exploit, they can.
    Last edited by SamR; 2013-01-31 at 06:52 PM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    especially one with an entire different idea on how end game raiding and gearing should work.
    That's great. I thought the point of raiding was to beat the encounter and get loot. Then use your loot to beat harder encounters. I didn't realize there was a magical puzzle to Trion's goals for raiding. Unless of course you mean they like stifling creativity and want to have dictator-like control and only one strategy to defeat all their encounters. It sounds more like that's what some players want.
    BAD WOLF

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    That's great. I thought the point of raiding was to beat the encounter and get loot. Then use your loot to beat harder encounters. I didn't realize there was a magical puzzle to Trion's goals for raiding. Unless of course you mean they like stifling creativity and want to have dictator-like control and only one strategy to defeat all their encounters. It sound more like that's what certain players want.
    There you go being all confrontational again. Yes, the point is to beat encounters and get loot, however, the design and philosophy behind that are different. Look at WoW where you can just skip tier easily where in Rift it takes a lot of time. Look at how the different difficulties are set-up in that 10m is totally separate from 20m, yet the rewards are the same with a few exceptions(weapons). It is a different game with different designers, what the developers consider intended is what matters, not what another game with different designs intends.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 12:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Well, companies can call anything they want an exploit. Arenanet banned people for buying ingredients off a vendor, crating something with it, and vendoring it for a profit and called that an exploit.

    It's not like they used any special trick to make the pet immune to the boss. They just sent the pet in and had it tank. But hey if Trion wants to call that an exploit, they can.
    Thay cn and more than likely will since it was intended to have a certain amount of heals or tanks required and this negates that intention allowing you to bring more DPS to beat the DPS check. Can you tell me you actually think they intended for a pet to tank? No, it is an unintended result of a design for other purposes. The reason pets take reduced/no AoE damage is so that a pet classes DPS does not suffer on fights with AoE. When I go Ranger, I do not get a shield on my portrait, nor does my pet. Therefore, it is not intended for me or my pet to tank in a group setting.
    Last edited by Lathais; 2013-01-31 at 06:54 PM.
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