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  1. #1

    Taking some of the stress out of RNG loot.

    Loot woes, I know. Overdone. Hear me out, though. Maybe WoW could implement a RNG hard cap, if you will. Allow people to buy items with JP/VP after X number of boss kills on a specific difficulty. For example, after 10 kills on Sha of Fear Normal you are able to buy the normal Helm token for XXXX# of Valor Points. Another example... if you were to kill Vizier Jin'bak (Siege of Niuzao) 20 times you are then able to buy Flashfrozen Resin Globule for YYYY# of Justice Points.

    Thoughts? Technical limitations? Stupid idea? GTFO?

    Signed,

    Mage that has been stuck with 2/4 Tier 14 since November.

  2. #2
    From how I read it I guess you're raiding 10 man. Now not that there is anything wrong about it, but basically, ever since 10 and 25 man raids were put on the same lockout we had this problem with Tier tokens, or rather loot from token bosses, in 10 man mode. Even though you have about 1/3 chance for your token to drop, the fact that only one token drops per week can mean that you're easily stuck without seeing a drop for months. Same goes for the remaining loot of that boss btw, for example our raid's only hunter received his sha weapon from Lei Shi last week, it never dropped in the months before, since there's only one slot for non-set loot on these bosses.

    If you ask me they should handle this all a bit different. Like having an additional loot slot for set loot and keeping 2 non-set slots, and maybe grant an additional set item at random. It's not like that would totally undermine 25 man raids, but it seems to me that stuff like this is intentionally left as it is to motivate people to do 25 man. Slightly higher drop rates for Thunderforged items in Throne of Thunder 25 man only support this.

    Now while your idea has a legitimate reasoning and proposes a way that could solve the problem at least partially, I don't think that a solution for this problem is even searched for; Blizzard might just be happy with how things are. It might be a little unfair if you're absolutely stuck with 10 man, but that's the way it goes. They'll never deviate from the concept of entirely uncontrollable RNG with this game.
    Last edited by The Kao; 2013-01-31 at 03:35 PM.

  3. #3
    No. At that point, loot acquisition becomes just another bar to fill before you can get what you want. We have enough of that already.
    The whole premise of MMOs is built on RNG and the thrill of finally getting what you want from the drop vs. the risk that there is a chance that you may never get what you want from a boss. You can't always get what you want. I never got ashkandi as a warrior in vanilla, I never got golden saronite dragon as a shaman in wotlk. The fact that not everyone can get everything they want also adds some uniqueness and flavor to the game and some mystique to the items themselves. And this is from a guy who just last night got his 2nd piece of tier.

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Gobra's Avatar
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    Nope, RNG will always be RNG, there is no reason they should let you buy an item with Valor or any currency IMO, just wait it out, I started LFR last week and i got 7items which using 1 Elder coin, so i just takes time for some people, others are more lucky^^
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  5. #5
    RNG works and is fun except when items become so important that they break your viability.

    Example is hunter ranged slot in MoP from Lei Shi. In 10man Lei Shi drops 1token and 1 out of 17 of the other drops. A hunter upgrading his ranged slot by x ilvl is the same as him upgrading 6-8 other gear slots all by x ilvl.
    In previous tiers hunters could have half upgrades from either ranged or melee slot during the tier. But in MoP the dps contribution from the ranged slot has been raised higher than ranged+melee combined in previous xpacks and you only get one shot at the upgrade.
    The bow from WotE isn't even a substitute. The 502 HC bow (with awesome secondaries) is a lot worse than the 496 gun (with worst secondaries) because of how heavily agility from the legendary gem weights on hunter dps.

    In the example of hunters the problem isn't the RNG but how the class was redesigned for MoP.
    But it would be better and easier if bosses drop a currency and we can buy the gear ourselves. It works in PvP for many years this way and I see no reason why it wouldn't work in PvE. Imagine if honor and conq gear would have a 50% chance to drop only from your first weekly BG or RBG (you wanted 5pvp belts right?) :/

    The alternative is that Blizzard class designers learn to balance classes on their stats and abilities. That has never worked.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by StijnDP View Post
    RNG works and is fun except when items become so important that they break your viability.

    Example is hunter ranged slot in MoP from Lei Shi. In 10man Lei Shi drops 1token and 1 out of 17 of the other drops. A hunter upgrading his ranged slot by x ilvl is the same as him upgrading 6-8 other gear slots all by x ilvl.
    In previous tiers hunters could have half upgrades from either ranged or melee slot during the tier. But in MoP the dps contribution from the ranged slot has been raised higher than ranged+melee combined in previous xpacks and you only get one shot at the upgrade.

    The alternative is that Blizzard class designers learn to balance classes on their stats and abilities. That has never worked.
    I thought hunter ranged weapons now are basically the same stat weights as all other 2 handed melee weapons... so they're similar stat weights to plate dps that use 2 handers, dps monks, and feral cats (not sure if caster dps with staves are similar enough to say also).

  7. #7
    I find the coins a pretty good fix for rng, bad luck on an item and you just double the chance of getting it by using a coin.

  8. #8
    Maybe they should let you spend coins to increase the %drop chance of your next use of a coin. How about each coin increases your chances of getting a drop on your next coin roll by 20%, so using 5 coins mean you guarantee yourself a drop from the next coin use, have the 'stacks' reset when you get a piece of loot. It is obnoxious when a boss like Lei Shi has such a massive drop table + tier tokens, and I don't get why they have several items shared as drops on Tsulong and Lei Shi's drop tables, namely those belts that nobody wants.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
    The stars may be far away, but people still reach for them. -My Grandfather
    Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbad View Post
    I find the coins a pretty good fix for rng, bad luck on an item and you just double the chance of getting it by using a coin.
    Excellent - so before I got 0 loot, now I get twice as much

    Sadface here - 0/44 on Sha Weapon drops, RNG hates me.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Maybe they should let you spend coins to increase the %drop chance of your next use of a coin. How about each coin increases your chances of getting a drop on your next coin roll by 20%, so using 5 coins mean you guarantee yourself a drop from the next coin use, have the 'stacks' reset when you get a piece of loot. It is obnoxious when a boss like Lei Shi has such a massive drop table + tier tokens, and I don't get why they have several items shared as drops on Tsulong and Lei Shi's drop tables, namely those belts that nobody wants.
    Too high: I think increasing the chance by 3% per Lesser, with a max of 30% boost to your next Elder attempt.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Excellent - so before I got 0 loot, now I get twice as much

    Sadface here - 0/44 on Sha Weapon drops, RNG hates me.
    I know that feel. Sha of Fear every week on Normal and LFR (18 kills total) used a coin every time (36 chances). Have gotten cloth leggings once (that are shit, btw) never seen helm or trinket, gold rest of the time. :s

  12. #12
    Helms exist for purchase for VP for items with rng bad luck. They are called "I'm not a tier helm"

    So yeah, GTFO and overdone, those were the options I could choose right?

  13. #13
    I'd trade 900 silver coins for 10 gold coins for 1 platinum coin that guaranteed a drop.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    I'd trade 900 silver coins for 10 gold coins for 1 platinum coin that guaranteed a drop.
    Anyone would. Any type of guaranteed loot drop would be coveted by anyone and instantly become "mandatory" for any serious raider, at which point the complaints about RNG would be replaced by complaints about how much work we have to do to be successful raiders.

    Also as for specific loot defining viability, that depends a lot on where you stand as a raid group and what your goals are. Remember, all the content was cleared by people well before they had access to their legendary gems. I'm not saying we should all be judged by their standards, but gear isn't always the benchmark for what you're capable of. I'd wager the argument that knowledge of a fight and your class are just as important as the extra +500 intellect.

  15. #15
    That really removes all of the RNG factor out of getting loot, and the coins are already in place to kind of help out with that and give you a second chance. A major downside to 10 man is that RNG with loot plays a much bigger factor, but on the contrary if you are very lucky you could gear up faster than a 25 man raider as there is less competition.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MordorFires View Post
    Anyone would. Any type of guaranteed loot drop would be coveted by anyone and instantly become "mandatory" for any serious raider, at which point the complaints about RNG would be replaced by complaints about how much work we have to do to be successful raiders.
    The problem would be that you would guarantee a drop, but what are the chances you are going to get that item you want when the boss might have 3 or 4 items that are assigned to your class/spec. You might have better luck taking the 10x extra rolls at a lower success rate than putting all your eggs in one basket and risking that you get a piece of gear you weren't aiming for. I suppose that such a system might open up a whole new theorycrafting field based upon statistical analysis of where it is most effective to use your coins. Now all the hardcore raiders will complain that they need to get PhDs in quantitative analysis to min/max.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -Howard Zinn
    The stars may be far away, but people still reach for them. -My Grandfather
    Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Dragore's Avatar
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    RNG does suck and luckily I have been pretty lucky with my mage and my monk as far as drops go I won't complain. I just know its not fun when you go so long without any drops I would like to see something implemented to help out that maybe a small bonus till you get something, like an extra 1%-10% on getting something.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome
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    i feel that they do have something in place to stop us going forever without loot. i got my T14 legs off sha of anger the 2nd week of MoP. i then didnt see another tier drop until last week, when i got tier chest from empress LFR. the next day sha dropped my hands. and i got my tier shoulders today (although i dont think that counts since guild loot rules are different )

    but my point stands, from nothing to 3 pieces of tier gear in ~5 days is a big change!

  19. #19
    I agree with OP, I (and some other people) were suggesting similar ideas yet before WotLK.
    Quote Originally Posted by houndstooth View Post
    No. At that point, loot acquisition becomes just another bar to fill before you can get what you want. We have enough of that already.
    The whole premise of MMOs is built on RNG and the thrill of finally getting what you want from the drop vs. the risk that there is a chance that you may never get what you want from a boss. You can't always get what you want. I never got ashkandi as a warrior in vanilla, I never got golden saronite dragon as a shaman in wotlk. The fact that not everyone can get everything they want also adds some uniqueness and flavor to the game and some mystique to the items themselves. And this is from a guy who just last night got his 2nd piece of tier.
    RNG is just a means to make player play longer to achieve, in this case, gearing goal. But it can be done by other means, not only RNG. There should be tangible sense of reward for killing bosses over and over. The fact "that you can't always get what you want no matter how many times you will succeed in pre-requisites aka killing same bosses over and over" is what slowly burns people out. Why bother kill boss million times only to finally see the drop, which you are after, when that tier is far from being current?

    At some point, long farming turns into a job, how long would you work at job where you would have salary in form of lottery tickets? What is fun in killing farmed boss after 1-2 wipes (because someone sneezed, broke keyboard, whatever), end up in 40-50 gold repair bills, spent resources for gold and food, only to have some pathetic few gold as loot and "Maybe next week"? Many don't even bother - just finish tier and go on break till next one - as there is literally no sense (and of course - nothing "mystique") in farming, just a waste of time.

  20. #20
    I do not think blizzard should implement a system like that. There are always alternatives you can use your valor on or at the moment there is also item upgrades. I realize rng can be terrible I used 30 ish odd tokens trying for a sha weapon and then the night I get the elite dagger from the protectors I use a token on empress trying for the chest and I get the made. ( was my first normal mode kill too). It was kind of funny that way. I've gotten 3 shoulder tokens, 1 head, 2 chests, two legs, and a glove. So I have been pretty fortunate. It's always exciting finally getting an item after trying for a few weeks or months!

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