Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    There are extremists everywhere you can't just assume the extremists represent the entire government / ethnic group...

    I mean you don't think Israel has their own extremists?

  2. #42
    Brewmaster The Riddler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm tall, and thin, with a bright red head but strike me once and I'm black instead...
    Posts
    1,451
    I long ago came up with the only workable solution to the Middle-East problem.

    1. No one should be allowed to live in the entire area of Isreal/Palestine any more. Empty the whole place and turn it into an international museum run by the Swiss. People are allowed to visit, but not allowed to live there.

    2. Who is 'responsible' for the Jewish people currently being in Isreal? A treaty of many nations agreed, but Great Britain was the most responsible since "Palestinia" was a British Territory which they ceded to the Jewish people after WW2. Therefore the most logical solution is for all Jews to be removed from Isreal and given a chunk of British Territory such as the Isle of Lewis or part of North Ireland or something.

    3. Everyone blames Isreal for the Palestinian plight (though a lot of their problems are self-inflicted), and by extension the United States for supporting them. Therefore the US should give the Palestinians a chunk of territory to live in. Preferably some sort of island. I think we have a bunch of great islands in the Pacific we could put them on.

    There. Now the Jews and Palestinians are on islands on opposite sides of the planet. Problem solved. Isreal is owned by nobody. This is the only solution that will work. Anything else is just fiddling around the margins.

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    Speaking from the prescriptive of the United States they generally like to point out the sweat shop like conditions China workers have to go through. Russia jailed a band because it spoke on Anti President. The US uses the UN for generally a ton of things. Seeking it out like a neutral party. In short they lead us to believe we are better at least when it comes to human rights..

    However if United States ignores the UN ruling and Israel continues to build settlements. Then does it not give an excuse to other Country's to reject the UN when it calls on action for them. For example in Iran they tortured people and held them in Gitmo style conditions. They told the people they arrested. The United States does it as a way to excuse their own actions.
    Have you been living under a rock for the past ten years? The USA have been vetoing sensible UN resolutions since FOREVER. The US government is as bad as China and Russia...

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 05:12 PM ----------

    Want a video showing Israelis saying "fuck you Obama" and "we control you" ?

    I really laugh every time someone posts a youtube video to 'prove' something.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 05:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Purlina View Post
    There are extremists everywhere you can't just assume the extremists represent the entire government / ethnic group...

    I mean you don't think Israel has their own extremists?
    They have them and one of them is leading the country.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 05:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    2. Who is 'responsible' for the Jewish people currently being in Isreal? A treaty of many nations agreed, but Great Britain was the most responsible since "Palestinia" was a British Territory which they ceded to the Jewish people after WW2. Therefore the most logical solution is for all Jews to be removed from Isreal and given a chunk of British Territory such as the Isle of Lewis or part of North Ireland or something.

    3. Everyone blames Isreal for the Palestinian plight (though a lot of their problems are self-inflicted), and by extension the United States for supporting them. Therefore the US should give the Palestinians a chunk of territory to live in. Preferably some sort of island. I think we have a bunch of great islands in the Pacific we could put them on.
    [Sarcasm]These two things will go well... yes nothing will go wrong...[/Sarcasm]

    You know that solutions need to be sensible and achievable right?

  4. #44
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    17,130
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    I long ago came up with the only workable solution to the Middle-East problem.

    1. No one should be allowed to live in the entire area of Isreal/Palestine any more. Empty the whole place and turn it into an international museum run by the Swiss. People are allowed to visit, but not allowed to live there.

    2. Who is 'responsible' for the Jewish people currently being in Isreal? A treaty of many nations agreed, but Great Britain was the most responsible since "Palestinia" was a British Territory which they ceded to the Jewish people after WW2. Therefore the most logical solution is for all Jews to be removed from Isreal and given a chunk of British Territory such as the Isle of Lewis or part of North Ireland or something.

    3. Everyone blames Isreal for the Palestinian plight (though a lot of their problems are self-inflicted), and by extension the United States for supporting them. Therefore the US should give the Palestinians a chunk of territory to live in. Preferably some sort of island. I think we have a bunch of great islands in the Pacific we could put them on.

    There. Now the Jews and Palestinians are on islands on opposite sides of the planet. Problem solved. Isreal is owned by nobody. This is the only solution that will work. Anything else is just fiddling around the margins.
    You would be displacing 12 million people. That doesn't generally go over well.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    You would be displacing 12 million people. That doesn't generally go over well.

    Tell that to the republicans against immigration reform :P

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by FusedMass View Post
    What happens when we need the UN for something.
    We wont, they provide nothing.

  7. #47
    Brewmaster The Riddler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    I'm tall, and thin, with a bright red head but strike me once and I'm black instead...
    Posts
    1,451
    I didn't say that the proposal was sensible. However, it is the only solution that would WORK if it was somehow implemented. This UN resolution? Worthless. The status quo? Untenable. Give the Pals back that territory? The violence that Isreal has been able to all but stop will explode again. Don't give it back? The Pals have no ability to move beyond being a glorified refugee camp. Extremists on both sides will keep the violence going because they value the 'issue' more than the lives.

    There's only one solution that is fair. Remove them both. Feasible? Of course not. Sensible? There's nothing sensible about this whole mess anyway, so why not have an unsensible solution?

    We wont, they provide nothing.
    To be fair there are UN councils and assistance organizations that do good work. However, politically speaking the UN is a pathetic joke.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    However, politically speaking the UN is a pathetic joke.
    Why? because they call out bullshit from top G20 nations?

  9. #49
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cola, SC via Devon
    Posts
    4,357
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    I long ago came up with the only workable solution to the Middle-East problem.
    You didn't say the safe dissolution or massive disarming and shrinking of Israel, so there we go.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    Because the US supplies the most troops and basicly pays for the UN to function. There would be no UN without the US. Whereas I have never ever heard of any Russian peacekeeping UN troops, nor any Chinese peacekeeping UN troops.
    This is so ill informed.

    list of countries by total number of peacekeepers contributed to United Nations operations based on United Nations report for 2010:

    Rank Country/Region Peacekeepers
    1 Pakistan 8,967
    2 Bangladesh 8,828
    3 India 7,839
    4 Nigeria 5,709
    5 Egypt 5,458
    6 Nepal 5,044
    7 Jordan 3,826
    8 Ghana 3,647
    9 Rwanda 3,635
    10 Uruguay 2,489
    11 Ethiopia 2,391
    12 Brazil 2,269
    13 Senegal 2,254
    14 South Africa 2,088
    15 China 1,995

    17 France 1,771

    40 Russia 362

    45 United Kingdom 281

    70 United States 82

    China supplies the most among the 5 permanent members of security council, and 20 times more than US does. At least do a little research before you claim US supplies the most troops.
    Last edited by ashblond; 2013-01-31 at 10:30 PM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Yilar View Post
    Pretty much this. And the UN can't do shit because the US has to veto all actions against Israel because their politicians would lose the comming election if they didn't.

    The only way things are gonna change are if either Israel comes to their senses and goes ahead with the "two state plan" or the jewish population in America becomes a non-factor in elections.
    i personally doubt all the israel coddling affects the vote of the US jewish population, certainly not to the extent that politicians here seems to believe. plenty of jews here think israel acts pretty fucked up at times
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  12. #52
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    16,332
    What do we do?

    We should do nothing except veto it in the Security Council if it comes to that.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  13. #53
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    European Union
    Posts
    8,978
    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    The opium wars happened over a hundred years ago, but it was still a terrible terrible time for China. All orchestrated by the British.
    I suppose the stuff that Japan did to China in WW2 trumps all of that though, so it might be forgotten.

    See? Even more examples of how no-one cares about what the UN says.

    We all know that US politics is ripe with hypocricy and double-standards though. No offense meant to any US citizens. But maybe you feel the same way about it?

    So the UN is a power tool for policies of the richest countries. No surprise there

    Turkey and Greece are co-dependant on each other and on the UN, and Europe. So ofcourse it would've been bad for them. Looking at how Greece is now, it's obvious they couldn't have handled the sanctions. Because that's all there would be, sanctions. The UN wouldn't dare stand in between two nations armies. They've shown that before. Small African countries hardly count as nations nor armies.

    It's a function that I think the EU does much better than the UN, keeping peace and co-dependance.
    Thanks for the detailed info. That said, that happened during the League of Nations then? Or even before WW1? If it happened before WW1... then nothing to comment, if it happened after WW1 but before WW2, the League of Nations was weak. It didn't include some major partners and didn't have its own army. This is why the UN is superior from the League, though still not perfect as it is pushed around by large actors still, which is a big minus.

    That said, yes, I agree, the EU does indeed much better then the UN in and around Europe... but the EU can only tackle problems in Europe and parts of Africa it seems, its influence doesn't really extend further.

    And yes, I agree, US politics is ripe with hypocrisy. Unfortunately... so is the politics of many countries. Even mine.

    And yes, I agree that maybe muslims might have launched more wars at start, though with time they settled down and it's Israel who ramped up the conflict now. Now we're sitting in the exact opposite from 1967. Then, Israel was the weak actor in a region filled with stronger countries and it got attacked. Nowadays they're the strong actors surrounded by weak ones and they're the ones attacking. It's sad that it has come to this. But in the end this is what indoctrination on both sides has brought, two sides who hate eachother.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    I long ago came up with the only workable solution to the Middle-East problem.

    1. No one should be allowed to live in the entire area of Isreal/Palestine any more. Empty the whole place and turn it into an international museum run by the Swiss. People are allowed to visit, but not allowed to live there.

    2. Who is 'responsible' for the Jewish people currently being in Isreal? A treaty of many nations agreed, but Great Britain was the most responsible since "Palestinia" was a British Territory which they ceded to the Jewish people after WW2. Therefore the most logical solution is for all Jews to be removed from Isreal and given a chunk of British Territory such as the Isle of Lewis or part of North Ireland or something.

    3. Everyone blames Isreal for the Palestinian plight (though a lot of their problems are self-inflicted), and by extension the United States for supporting them. Therefore the US should give the Palestinians a chunk of territory to live in. Preferably some sort of island. I think we have a bunch of great islands in the Pacific we could put them on.

    There. Now the Jews and Palestinians are on islands on opposite sides of the planet. Problem solved. Isreal is owned by nobody. This is the only solution that will work. Anything else is just fiddling around the margins.
    If only this was possible!

  15. #55
    Brewmaster Shon237's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Funkytown
    Posts
    1,439
    Funny I saw snipits of Chuck Hagel hearing and him getting drilled because he is Anit-Israel because he said one thing about Israel awhile ago. I love how in America that Israel you can't touch, question and have to praise all the time. From what I know they have crazies over there just like in the U.S. where they feel they don't have to answer to nobody. Sad if a U.S. politician stands against Israel we thus have to hate Israel. To me Israel causes more problems than it solves in Middle-East.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 07:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    You would be displacing 12 million people. That doesn't generally go over well.

    Isn't that what the Israeli's doing to the Palestinians?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •