1. #1

    Elemental: Revisiting Socket Bonuses and Gemming (halp!)

    I've only seen bits and pieces around regarding how Ele should gem with regards to socket bonuses. Most of the guides don't really provide much guidance as far as whether or not it's worth it to gem for a non-Intellect socket bonus and I see different shaman gem differently. I know Ele shaman in particular still suffer from the Cata style problems of hybrids just not being worth it sometimes (even with the double bonus).

    My assumption is that only the hard math would be able to prove whether or not a socket bonus is worth using an Int/Spirit or Int/Haste,Int/Mastery gem in a blue/yellow socket.

    So, the question I'm asking is: Does anyone have any exact guidance (Endus/Bink halp!) on how to properly calculate whether a socket bonus is worth it or not?

    I'm particulary curious as it applies to me specifically with items like Regail's dagger, Chain of Shadow, and Lightning Prisoner boots.

    Specific example, my Char: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nnetick/simple

    I got my dagger last night, and the heroic Chain of Shadow on Monday. I did basic napkin math that I thought worked out that the hybrid gems were worth just enough to justify the socket bonus, but I'm thinking now I may have been wrong.

    Here's how I tried to figure it.
    Dagger:
    A. 160 int x 3.57 (my Simcraft weight) = 571.2
    vs
    B. 80 int x 3.57 = 285.6
    160 spirit (consider value of reforging somewhere else a gain of 160 haste/mastery) x 1.45 (my value for haste at the time) = 232
    60 Crit x 1.3 (my value again) = 78
    285.6 + 232 + 78 = 595.6. Thus I used a hybrid gem

    Was I wrong? I feel my new simcraft number is lower, but I neglected to save my results from before my upgrades.

  2. #2
    The Patient
    Join Date
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    Your gemming math is correct, as far as I know. In general, the difference between gemming for the +60 secondary-stat socket bonuses and just stacking red gems is quite small, but gemming for the secondary-stat socket bonuses should usually be slightly ahead.

    You should expect the simcraft dps numbers for the two setups to be very close to each other -- quite possibly within the range of normal variation. If you sim the same setup multiple times, you should see a small amount of variation between your dps numbers each time. If you look at the DPS entry of the Statistics & Data Analysis section of your simcraft results, you will see why: the sim has produced a range of dps outputs, and taken the average of them for the number you see at the top. Therefore, if you get that dps for setup A is less than a few hundred above/below dps for setup B, the practical difference between the two will be very small -- smaller than the expected variation due to fight mechanics and human error.

  3. #3
    generally speaking, choosing between socketing to color or socketing pure int is really close. you're very likely to not see that much of an impact, unless you're gemming for spirit and can't get spirit from anywhere else.

    like your simcraft numbers: a pure gem is worth 25 DPS less than following color. I haven't simmed your gear, but if you pull 100K DPS (ballpark number for someone who is around your gear), 25 DPS is a VERY small improvement, in the range of 0.025%. compare that with the variance just from RNG involving crits and procs, which can be anywhere between 3 and 7%, and you'll see that it very likely won't even matter what you're gemming. it's more important that you ARE gemming your gear, because 600 DPS per gem (and 1000 for the meta), on your gearset, is easily 7000 DPS, which is 7%. you're not going to make that up easily with RNG.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  4. #4
    if the socket bonus isn't 80 or more INT it doesn't need to be made.
    do what you feel.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    if the socket bonus isn't 80 or more INT it doesn't need to be made.
    unargumented oneliners like this aren't worth anything in a game where numbers mean everything.

    first off, sockets don't come in sizes of 80, they come in multiples of 60 of a stat.
    secondly, it all depends on your stat weights. you can never have 1 single rule that applies to every item in every itemset for every player, apart from "consult your stat weights to make the optimal decisions about which socket bonuses to get." with reforges, double secondary stat and enchants factored in, sometimes going for socket bonuses means you can get closer to your hit cap. in addition, with how close secondary stats are for most players and how they're valued relative to INT, socket bonuses aren't that cut and dry.

    example using the numbers from the OP: an orange socket with a 60 haste bonus is a choice between 80 int or 220 haste (after canceling out the int you get either way). which means if haste is worth at least 36% of what int worth is, gemming int/haste is optimal.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  6. #6
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Orgrimmar
    Posts
    267
    There is one hard and fast rule (for Elem shaman at least, and probably all casters): when the socket bonus is Int, you should always gem for it.

    Since the socket bonus is not less than 60 per socket, it will be a comparison of 160 Int against 80 Int + 160 secondary-stat + 60 Int, which boils down to 20 Int against 160 secondary-stat. Since Int is always less than 8x as valuable as any (useful) secondary stat, gem for Int socket bonuses.

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