1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Help my group's Enhancement Shaman against Elegon

    My raid group has hit Elegon and stopped completely. I've been looking at logs, and there appears to be a lot of room for improvement.

    Could some of you experienced Elegon-slaying raiders look at combat log 1 and combat log 2 and take a look at Gorhak's performance? He's one of our top hitters, but at this point, we need everyone to squeeze out a bit more damage or we'll fail over and over.

    Thanks in advance for your time.

  2. #2
    Well glancing over them his dps is not bad may I ask why his dps is the one you are questioning or are you questioning all of your dps in their respective forums?

    Looking at the longest attempt try 10 on 29-01
    The FS should have a higher uptime, its at 62%

    How many orbs are you downing per round?

    Here is a link to my logs a few weeks ago (not sure if you can see them):
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7.../?s=489&e=1013
    I just switched back to Enhan after a long run on Ele so I may be way out in left field too
    Last edited by Hoofisdead; 2013-01-31 at 11:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Do you know if he uses any addons specifically for enhance? there are a couple priority trackers that work wounders for us....specifically i use enhancement technique. there is also Shock and aw. His damage looks too be pretty much ok tho. seems like the problem might just be execution. I think he should be reforging haste instead of crit. also.
    Last edited by mgtnr; 2013-02-01 at 12:13 AM.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Even on your longest try the overall raid DPS is more of a problem than his specific DPS. How many orbs do you manage and are you doing the Straight Six method? You seem to wipe relatively often at about the first transition, I assume because adds are demolishing your group.

  5. #5
    Overall, the DPS is low. Now, that can be attributed to a few factors, but mainly, how many sparks are dying per phase?? Also, are you not hitting P3? Through out these attempts, I have seen not one lust.

    Are you getting through P1 with only 2 Protectors?? 1 should die as soon as it spawns, the 2nd right on transition.

    Another thing is, your Shadow Priest is doing it wrong. He should take Cascade over Halo, and Twist of Fate for this fight.

    Are your ranged standing on the edge so they can just jump to reset stacks?? Movement for ranged is a killer.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack8772 View Post
    Well glancing over them his dps is not bad may I ask why his dps is the one you are questioning or are you questioning all of your dps in their respective forums?
    I am just looking for any improvement, across the board. Gorhak has always been one of our stronger raiders.

  7. #7
    I see, I was just curious

  8. #8
    The Patient
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    I think knowing how many orbs you are killing and how you are handling the pillars would enable us to help you better. Looking through the logs your dps is quite low, how many stacks are you letting your dps get before they clear the debuff?

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I am just looking for any improvement, across the board. Gorhak has always been one of our stronger raiders.
    Good, we're only looking to help you . Any general information would do to see what the true problem is. My old guild has also been stuck on Elegon for a long time, until we made some adjustments and he went down in no time (and those adjustments were basically doing 5-5 orbs and Straight Six pillar tactic).

  10. #10
    I wouldnt say its your enhancement you need to worry about. He might be able to do a bit more dps but theres sum easier things to change that you should focus on. First your shaman, tkenga's dps is pretty poor. On the attempts he healed its not very good either. 2 healing is often easier for the fight. It means you get to each phase transition faster, have less trouble with the orbs, and have less adds in p3 to deal with. And the fight is just shorter as a whole and less healing intensive.
    Anyway if you want him to heal the fight as he did his last attempts heres some things that could easily change to make his healing better, Ok first basically his only spell hes casting is chain heal. Thats a pretty bad spell, doesnt do enough healing except in aoe situations to be worth the cast time. Instead of chain heal spamming its much better to cast healing waves on people taking low damage or greater healing waves / healing surge on people taking lots of damage. His riptide healing is very low, he shud be casting this almost on cooldown and it should be in the top 3 of his healing spells. It also seems like hes glyphed it so that needs to be used a LOT more. Healing stream totem is also doing very low healing. This should be used on cooldown with the only exception being if you have healing tide totem or mana tide up at the time. Earthshield uptime is also pretty low. Another thing, on all the attempts he healed I dont think he used healing tide or ascendance once. They are very strong cooldowns and I usually use them 3 times in the fight just because I know big damage in the entire fight is when the adds explode in p1 and p4. So you can basically use them every single p1 and they will be back up when you need them for p4. From looking at his armory he has taken the conductivity talent. While I dont usually say a talent isnt good and let the player decide on a play style, this talent is completely rubbish on all fights except an ultraxion style fight and even then I wouldnt say its very good. Healing tide is a much better talent and nearly always will beat the other 2. Also he has the unleash fury talent but I dont see him cast unleash life once in the fight.


    Anyway if you and he dont mind him going back to elemental on the fight theres some things that he could change. Flame shock has a very low uptime, it should be 90% atleast. A couple of his lava bursts didnt crit so its pretty important. and hes losing out on lava surge procs. Since he doesnt have unleashed fury he shouldnt be using unleash flame atall. Also have him get 2 other glyphs, glyph of flame shock is mandatory, means you need to cast flame shock less throughout the fight which means more dps, and glyph of unleashed lightning is usually prefered on any fight with even a small amount of movement. He also doesnt seem to be casting elemental blast on cooldown. If flame shock is on the boss, lava burst on cooldown, then you should cast elemental blast. Lightning bolt also seems to be doing very little damage, on some of the fights he cast lava burst more times than lightning bolt and since lava burst has an 8 second cooldown, this shouldnt really happen. If your other spells are on cooldown and flame shock is on the boss he should be casting lightning bolts. This will also increase the damage from fulimation which isnt cast half as much as it should be. He also doesnt seem to be using ascendance when dpsing. This is a really strong cooldown and should be used on cooldown and there doesnt seem to be any damage from his fire totems. Fire elemental can do about 1m damage every time its popped and searing totem can do some decent amount also so they should really be kept up as often as he can. Also have him use storm lash totem. From the looks of things the other shaman is the only 1 casting storm lash and thats a huge amount of raid dps. You should also be getting a few more draw powers out each transition which will help give you more dps. I cant tell if its tkenga's orb getting through but generally as an elemental shaman its a good idea in the transition to save elemental blast, flame shock and lava burst for the sparks. Whilst waiting for them to spawn he should lightning bolt the boss to build fulmination stacks then when the sparks spawn, flame shock - lava burst - elemental blast - earthshock for fulmination and it should be dead without a problem.
    One last thing I noticed, he seems to be specced ancestral guidance but instead of using it hes casting an odd healing spell to help out here and there which is good but it would be much more beneficial to cast ancestral guidance. With a huge damage increase on the boss each one of the heals from ancestral guidance is going to be pretty high whilst keeping on dpsing the boss, and instead of stopping dpsing to heal it can help ALOT.
    Well hope I helped. I know you asked for help with your enhancement but really your enhancement isnt doing too bad so I thought Id give it a go helping with 1 of your weaker raiders
    Last edited by mjolnrik; 2013-02-01 at 11:13 AM.

  11. #11
    High Overlord TecPontificates's Avatar
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    From first week of MoP raiding:

    Author of Enhancement Technique, a priority manager for Enhancement Shamans | My YouTube channel | Tecknique @ Deathwing-US

  12. #12
    Your tank dps is outstandingly low and a cause for concern, since you want to squeeze as much dps as you can.

    1) Don't reset stacks between p1 and transitioning to draw power - this will help keep your vengeance higher to enable more dps.
    2) When it comes to killing the sparks, are you remembering to spread dots from the boss? Flame shock can be spread with LL to the adds for extra dps, blood boil with rolling blood will spread the diseases to every add. As a warrior you're probably in the same position as I am (bear) that you can only spread over 3 adds (1 side). I put a thrash on 3 adds while you'd want to look into thunderclapping for the deep wounds to try and help get more adds down

    Ultimately, the trick is to get as many adds down (4-5 is good) per draw power phase to ensure a smooth kill.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    I want to thank everyone for their help so far. I will make sure it goes to the right people.

    It's a bit off-topic, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarella View Post
    Your tank dps is outstandingly low and a cause for concern, since you want to squeeze as much dps as you can.

    1) Don't reset stacks between p1 and transitioning to draw power
    I don't have a choice in the matter. I'm the one dragging every single one of the protectors outside, I have to reset my stacks to make that happen. Yes, I know, having only one tank drag out all the protectors might not be a great strategy, but we're stuck with it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    I want to thank everyone for their help so far. I will make sure it goes to the right people.

    It's a bit off-topic, but



    I don't have a choice in the matter. I'm the one dragging every single one of the protectors outside, I have to reset my stacks to make that happen. Yes, I know, having only one tank drag out all the protectors might not be a great strategy, but we're stuck with it.
    Why are you stuck with this strategy? Having 1 tank on the boss full time is not only hurting raid wide dps but its going to hurt your healers mana since you aren't resetting stacks. Your dps is not high enough raid wide to just sit through it until p2.

    But on topic, your enhance's dps isn't that great at all for his gear. My enhance set is only a 462 ilvl with raid finder claws off gara'jal and I can still do over 100k on elegon normal. His lava lash dmg is low and from attempt 8s logs he only did 16 lava lash in a 7.5 min fight? So that equals out to the amount that should be done in a 3 min fight. Very low and a huge hit to his dps. Also only 84% active time, In that fight theres alot of movement but you can always time it to be attacking something. Need to reset stacks then dps the add going out in the process. P2 adds not up yet? dps should be on the boss.

    Overall his rotation is messed up, your tanking strat is against you, and the raid dps as a whole is low. Even on our first kill majority of our dps was over 100k on elegon. I'm not even sure how its possible not to be

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enitzu View Post
    Why are you stuck with this strategy?
    Sigh...politics. It's a long story, and it's part of the problem, I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enitzu View Post
    Even on our first kill majority of our dps was over 100k on elegon. I'm not even sure how its possible not to be
    Damage spikes in the burn phase (see also: Bloodlust). If we would reach the burn phase and take the boss to zero, mathematically, I'm pretty sure our DPS would average out in the 100k-range too. But we're not reaching the burn phase. That's why I'm here, asking for help. Speaking of which, thank you.

  16. #16
    If you look at the longest pull HERE for damage taken you can see that Gorhak took damage from Discharge 27 times. Discharge is what happens when an Energy Charge dies. Since there are six charges per wave, that means you killed, at most, four waves of charges. That's just way too few. I don't think you have a hope of killing the boss without doing eight to ten.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyaxeres View Post
    If you look at the longest pull
    That's not the best run to judge by. Things got out of control when one of our DPS wandered into an energy wall and fried, got battlerezzed over empty space, and died again. Our usual strategy is not to let the first wave of sparks escape, I promise. We need a lot of help, true, but even my group is not that bad.

  18. #18
    How many waves do you kill?

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Ok, just so we can clear this topic and move on: we changed strategies a few times when it was clear we weren't killing the fourth wave consistantly, which, again, DPS issue, that's why I'm asking for help. And no, it doesn't help that some of the DPS explodes and dies due to Discharge + 20 stacks, but that's not a shaman-specific issue. I'm looking for things that will help Gorhak's performance, including the tips you've given so far.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Ok, just so we can clear this topic and move on: we changed strategies a few times when it was clear we weren't killing the fourth wave consistantly, which, again, DPS issue, that's why I'm asking for help. And no, it doesn't help that some of the DPS explodes and dies due to Discharge + 20 stacks, but that's not a shaman-specific issue. I'm looking for things that will help Gorhak's performance, including the tips you've given so far.
    Instead of telling your shaman to play better you should refine your strategy, that's the whole point. He maybe doesn't play like a top 200 shaman, but that's not required for normal elegon.

    Your tactics are wierd in many many aspect, which people alredy have pointed out. You should speak to your raiding group as a whole about tactics and make them understand that changing a tactic in a middle of trying out an encounter isn't always bad.

    If you don't kill 4 sparks each time, you're going to be in deep problems in the end, either by reaching berserk or your healers going OOM. It's not a "dps" issue, it's that your dps can't handle a ~7 second dps window, which they really should train on if that's the case.
    You should 2 heal this, not 3, looking at your logs it looks like you did some kind of mix. Refine the add tanking strategy, it's retarded, im sorry but it's really really poorly done, idk about your politics in the guild, if you would ever wanna clear full normal, the other tank has to learn how to drag an add out.

    On the spark phase, have your tanks aoe all 3 of them one they spawn, then help on the 2 people needing help the most (ele shammy and spriest) assign one of the orbs to each player. If someone is falling behind and need help they should call it out. You as a warrior can jump around like crazy which really helps alot. Make sure the elemental shaman and the shadow priest are on opposite sides.

    I really would advice not to start a discussion about your enhancement shammys performance right now, as looking at logs, he's not the issue. The higher progress your guild will make, the more skilled people will get.

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