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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Breccia's Avatar
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    Help my group's Arcane Mage against Elegon

    My raid group has hit Elegon and stopped completely. I've been looking at logs, and there appears to be a lot of room for improvement.

    Could some of you experienced Elegon-slaying raiders look at combat log 1 and combat log 2 and take a look at the mage's performance? She's our top DPS, and I don't actually have any complaints about how she's doing, but we need everyone to squeeze out just a bit more damage or we'll fail.

    Thanks in advance for your time.

  2. #2
    She needs to use Rune of Power over Incanter's Ward.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by chaostiger View Post
    She needs to use Rune of Power over Incanter's Ward.
    Rune of Power bugs out way too much in Elegon. Which is sad, because the fight is very good for RoP otherwise.

    Invocation/Haste Arcane build seems about the best you can hope for given the bugs on this fight.

  4. #4
    TLDR: It isn't your mage's dps that is the problem.

    With her ilvl and gear, I'd say she's doing pretty well considering. Rune would certainly elevate it some, but as Schwarzkopf said, its a pita.

    To be honest, I would have to have some answers to some questions. Who is on the protectors as they are brought out? Who finishes them off? Are you using cooldowns on Total Annihilation? Her active time is pretty high, except on some of your shorter attempts, which smacks of you having her spread too thin trying to cover too many roles, too many dps shortfalls from other raiders.

    Almost every fight, someone seems to die in the middle of the fight. You are losing people to energy charge discharge, so the healers need to step it up, or people need to be better about resetting their stacks in between killing orb waves. Also, you have to remind people that the adds from the pools are off limits unless they can dump aggro/protect themselves, or until the tank gets good aggro.

    Also, protectors seem to be transitioning off the platform too slowly, and once they do, they are taking too long to die. Stability flux is killing people. This is the damage from 20% to death dealt by the protector. It is higher when it is on the platform than off, but it is not inconsequential. In our group, on our first few kills, we ended up having to relegate some dps on the protectors and some to stay on the boss. This kept the tempo of the fight going for 2 adds in first phase 1, and ensured people dpsing the add had complete control of getting it to 20% and not killing it on the platform, then finishing it off when off the platform. You are more melee heavy it seems. My advice would be to put your melee on the add since they have to reset stacks anyway, and add a range as needed, and leave your mage and SP on the boss. The DK can Antimagic Shield one of the total annihilations on his way back in.

    Energy Cascades are also a no no.

    Fix these unnecessary death/damage taking areas, then you will see your dps smooth out and you'll beat the fight.

    Also, how many orbs are you trying for in each pillar phase?
    Last edited by Malfecto; 2013-02-01 at 12:31 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Rune of Power bugs out way too much in Elegon. Which is sad, because the fight is very good for RoP otherwise.

    Invocation/Haste Arcane build seems about the best you can hope for given the bugs on this fight.
    Doesnt bug on the "elegon fight". It just bugs when you put it half-in half-out like we've been able to do before. That happened when they fixed something with the floor disapearing sometimes.

    You just try to find a spot where it doesnt bug before the pull, or just but RoP 100% in the platform and just scorch / leave rop to destack. Shouldnt be a significant dps loss at all. Considering you can even cast a second rop outside before the pull.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  6. #6
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    Where exactly are you guys struggling? Is it with enrage timer and pushing phases or do you wipe to things getting out of control.

    I remember our groups biggest hurdle was controlling the adds in the transitions into the second and third cycles. If this happens to be an issue I recommend taking all of the pillars down at the same time as the boss gains a haste buff increasing their spawn interval each time a pillar is killed (it might be when they actually go down, I'm not 100% sure on the specifics).

  7. #7
    I made this pro graphic when I had to explain RoP for Elegon to someone else:


  8. #8
    By the way, a slight tip. You don't need to move outside to clear the stacks. Just find a sweet spot at the edge where you can clear stacks by jumping. And i don't mean by jumping out but rather just jump once in place when casting scorch = stacks cleared. By far the easiest method of clearing stacks and you lose no dps what so ever because you don't move from rop, you don't move at all for that matter.

  9. #9
    I'd like to add that if Crazychickx is going to switch to Rune of Power she might want to use the 6 stack/scorch weave rotation instead of dropping stacks with arcane barrage. At least until 5.2 is released.

  10. #10
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    1. Activate 'Display Percentages' under Interface -> Status Text
    2. Stand outside before the countdown. When you have 4 seconds left to the fight, cast Rune of Power inside the platform near the entrance (that drawing above is completely unnecessary and it was important only for progression when people had really low gear), pop a Potion of the Jade Serpent and enter your rune while casting Mirror Image.
    3. Nuke the boss using the Scorch 6-Charge camping tactic along with the Alter Time Macro.
    4. Keep dps-ing the boss until Arcane Power expires with only placing your DoT on the add. Check the DBM Timer to make sure he won't summon the second add just as he's about to transition into phase 2.
    4.1 Up until now you didn't have to leave the platform at all. If you need to kill the second add, then you need to reset your stacks for his Total Annihilation.
    5. Blink to your designated spot, cast Rune of Power, reset stacks, nuke boss until your designated add spawns. Never drop your Charges. Go reset your Titan stacks every second explosion. Recast Rune of Power at one point so you don't lose it randomly.
    6. Keep up the boss/adds/resetstacks rotation as long as your guild requires it (kill 5-6 waves, let the following one go while focusing on the boss). Remember you still have about 10 seconds of DPS left on the boss after you let the adds pass and the pillars start showing up.
    7. Blink out of the platform, cast Rune of Power, DoT and nuke the pillars around you.
    8. When the little energy adds start showing, DoT them, after you dotted 2-3 cast Mirror Image as they'll be ready at this point.
    9. Repeat steps 2-8 except don't use a second Potion of the Jade Serpent
    10. When you enter the last phase, you'll have all of your cooldowns ready again for the third time (possibly, depends on how short the second phase 1 is), the boss' health will be low, stack on the boss' tail and nuke him to the end. Use your second Potion of the Jade Serpent at this point, along with Time Warp.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    (that drawing above is completely unnecessary and it was important only for progression when people had really low gear)
    How is it unnecessary? If you lay Rune of Power right in the middle of where the inner and outer platform meet (your mouse actually "snaps" to the dead center), you won't get the Rune of Power buff no matter which platform you're on. By laying it off center, with the majority of it on the inner platform, you receive the buff and you can stand on that sweet spot where you only have to jump to reset stacks and you won't have to move til the transition phase. Being an arcane mage, I much prefer being able to simply jump as I cast Living Bomb or Scorch than move in and out.

  12. #12
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    The boss is currently so easy on both difficulties that hitting the sweet spot after every movement (reset on normal, soak and reset on heroic) is a total waste of time. Targeting the Rune perfectly and standing in an even tinier spot than usual is also boring. By all means, if you think it's useful to stand in the sweet spot go ahead, I just find it boring and useless, especially now when the boss is piss easy compared to 25 item levels ago.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    The boss is currently so easy on both difficulties that hitting the sweet spot after every movement (reset on normal, soak and reset on heroic) is a total waste of time. Targeting the Rune perfectly and standing in an even tinier spot than usual is also boring. By all means, if you think it's useful to stand in the sweet spot go ahead, I just find it boring and useless, especially now when the boss is piss easy compared to 25 item levels ago.
    Really? "My raid group has hit Elegon and stopped completely". They are progressing. You might have killed it a while ago but that doesn't mean everyone has snowflake.

  14. #14
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    That's why two posts above I made a detailed explanation of what to do as an Arcane mage, I'm not trying to belittle your progress. Typically, wiping on Elegon happens for several reasons:

    1. Lack of dps in P1 causing too many adds to spawn in unwanted moments. This needs to be countered by proper raid leading and simply more gear on players.
    2. Inability of certain classes to burn down sparks. Those who have issuse need to be helped by the tanks.
    3. Dps dying in phase 3 because they're dps whores and aggro the small adds. They should stop.
    4. Tanks die because they don't get healed on Breath attacks or use cooldowns properly - have your raid leader watch the dbm timers and call out things or just have your healers focus more.

    I've faced all of these problems and compared to them, one Arcane mage standing in the sweet spot instead of two steps forward is not an issue.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Caladriel View Post
    I made this pro graphic when I had to explain RoP for Elegon to someone else:

    Which would be good if it worked, but I've had it 90% off AND 90% on, and not worked. I've had it 50/50 and it worked.... either way it takes 5-6 goes to get it right.

    THEN - in the last phase, you have bucklies of getting it right, or even knowing where on earth it is - or even trying to target it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Caladriel View Post
    I made this pro graphic when I had to explain RoP for Elegon to someone else:

    This is great information for newer people. I'd have loved to know that before learning from experience. I'd ignore people who seem to have a problem with others maximizing their dps because they feel the boss is "too easy" to try on now. Also doing that correctly has never bugged for me I'd assume any failures are the users error to realize when the graphic is slightly too high off of the floor which is what determines if the rune works or not at least in my experience.

  17. #17
    You must cast the rop while 'inside' the bubble that turns you into a skeleton. If you cast it from outside and then move inside (even if the rop is inside) it won't be active on your character. It's not difficult but can be a pita to get used to if you like standing in that spot where you can jump to reset stacks.

    -Nish

  18. #18
    The problem with their raid isn't the mage's dps though. That's the thing. LOOK at the logs. The fails are people dying to things they shouldn't. You shouldn't lose people to discharge when the orbs die. Period. You shouldn't have people that have snares, aggro dumps dying to adds while transitioning back to the platform. Period. You shouldn't have tanks dying to breath.

    I mean, come on, let's not turn this away from the real problem. The logs show that their overall dps is fine, for the most part, and I'm sure that if they were executing properly the lower end dps in that raid would come up a bit. I know it is frustrating for raid leaders and the desire to pin the blame on dps is easy, but tbh, that isn't the case here.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Which would be good if it worked, but I've had it 90% off AND 90% on, and not worked. I've had it 50/50 and it worked.... either way it takes 5-6 goes to get it right.

    THEN - in the last phase, you have bucklies of getting it right, or even knowing where on earth it is - or even trying to target it.
    There are some places around the ring, where it just doesn't work. I had the same problem with Frozen Orb when I was Frost. Standing in the sweet spot for jumping, some places my Orb would go fine, some places it would get stuck on the edge. You just have to find where the spots are. You should never have to move to more than 2 different positions on the platform (1 by raid stack point, other by your pillar for spark). Just find the 2 spots where the graphic works and go there always.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nish77 View Post
    You must cast the rop while 'inside' the bubble that turns you into a skeleton. If you cast it from outside and then move inside (even if the rop is inside) it won't be active on your character.
    This is incorrect, I used to think the same but I spent 30 minutes during progress testing this out and it's all about where you place it. If placed correctly it will give you the buff, regardless of where you stand when casting it.

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