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  1. #41
    Scarab Lord Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    A little proof of your theory? I would be interested in seeing what you have to refute Malygos' death. Secretly, I hope you do have something and not just "well, that is what I think".
    Stop arguing about that, many people already showed him that he's wrong, so there's nothing more to discuss

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 10:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Yes he was. "Endtime" is not Murozond's timeline.
    Also these's what the dungeon journal say about Endtime: "One of an infinite number of potential outcomes, this timeway depicts the desolate future of Azeroth should Deathwing fail to be stopped. Nozdormu has identified a powerful anomaly that exists in this moment and bars access to the past - and hope of retrieving the Demon Soul. The powerful creature from out of time live alone amidst the time-twisted echoes of the past."
    Last edited by Maxilian; 2013-02-01 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Feio View Post
    He may be dead, but who knows what happens after death to an "immortal" being like a dragon aspect. I don't actually believe Blizzard would pull off such a comeback but I just wanted to point out they could^^
    We do know, because we have seen it happen hundreds of times before. Being "Immortal" does not mean you are immune to death, only that death won't come naturally. The Lich King was immortal and we killed his ass.

    At most, Malygos is traveling the astral pathways as a spirit. Does this mean someday he could weasel his way back? Yes, considering Azuragos did it once. Does it mean he will be an Aspect still? Nope. Because those powers left him when he died, thus how Kalec was able to claim them.

  3. #43
    The Lich King was immortal and we killed his ass.
    I'd like to add we didn't kill the Lich King, we killed Arthas ...

  4. #44
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxilian View Post
    in case you're right, why would he want DW to win?
    Something unspecified ("The True End Time") he saw in a possible future and having deathwing win was the only way he could see (possibly old god influence blinding him to other possibilities) of averting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Yes he was. "Endtime" is not Murozond's timeline.
    Murozond's intended timeline.
    Last edited by Masark; 2013-02-01 at 04:48 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Doggwin View Post
    I'd like to add we didn't kill the Lich King, we killed Arthas ...
    Semantics. We killed the Lich King, but without someone utilizing the Helm of Domination the Scourge would go out of control, thus the helmet was put on Bolvar to allow him to control the Scourge, thus in-turn making him a "New Lich King". It does not stop the fact that both the soul of Ner'zhul and Arthas, the ones that made up the previous Lich King, are both dead and banished to darkness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    Murozond's intended timeline.
    Wait what are you even arguing now?

    Murozond comes from a timeline in which Deathwing was defeated. He saw the future of that timeline as worst then what would happen if Deathwing was victorious, thus he went back in time to alter the past and create "Endtime" by allowing Deathwing to win.

    Where does this go back to you saying in his timeline Deathwing was never defeated?
    Last edited by Grocalis; 2013-02-01 at 04:49 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    We do know, because we have seen it happen hundreds of times before. Being "Immortal" does not mean you are immune to death, only that death won't come naturally. The Lich King was immortal and we killed his ass.

    At most, Malygos is traveling the astral pathways as a spirit. Does this mean someday he could weasel his way back? Yes, considering Azuragos did it once. Does it mean he will be an Aspect still? Nope. Because those powers left him when he died, thus how Kalec was able to claim them.
    I wasn't referring to him as being immortal and immune to all kinds of death, rather immune to natural death, like you said. I just hinted he may still make a comeback. There is an afterlife in the Warcraft universe as we all know and we don't know much about the afterlife of dragon aspects. Who knows, maybe the Titans did implement some emergency exit in the afterlife of dragon aspects.

    As unlikely as it may be, there is always a chance for Blizzard to implement new lore for a character to make a comeback.

  7. #47
    Those two models were all over patch 4.3

    In the 4.3 dungeon and raid.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Feio View Post
    Who knows, maybe the Titans did implement some emergency exit in the afterlife of dragon aspects.
    I doubt it, otherwise the same systems would be utilized for all the Titan's creations. Remember Lokan? His death itself was the trigger for the emergency code that called Algalon. He didn't just spring rebuilt from the Forge of Wills because of a fail safe. Why would the Titan's give such a failsafe to the Aspects when their job was to mold and observe the mortal world? And not to more important jobs like keeping Yogg-Saron from devouring everything like was Lokan's old job?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I doubt it, otherwise the same systems would be utilized for all the Titan's creations. Remember Lokan? His death itself was the trigger for the emergency code that called Algalon. He didn't just spring rebuilt from the Forge of Wills because of a fail safe. Why would the Titan's give such a failsafe to the Aspects when their job was to mold and observe the mortal world? And not to more important jobs like keeping Yogg-Saron from devouring everything like was Lokan's old job?
    Well they aren't the same as titan creations, they were empowered. They probably do have a different rule-set. Not that i am agreeing with that post, however, i can see there being differences.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Duoux View Post
    Well they aren't the same as titan creations, they were empowered. They probably do have a different rule-set. Not that i am agreeing with that post, however, i can see there being differences.
    Yes but that makes it even less likely. If the Titans are not going to even make their constructs into "immortal" creatures that magically come back from the dead, why would they give such power to the Aspects? They would more likely give such a power to those that could much more easily utilize it.

    I mean from what you are saying, Deathwing himself could just suddenly pop out of the sky again like nothing happened, all due to a Titan failsafe. It defeats a lot of the gravity of the whole thing. It would be much more interesting if they do decide to bring him back, to just explain his spirit found a way to reform, minus his Aspect powers, which he lost on his death.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I doubt it, otherwise the same systems would be utilized for all the Titan's creations. Remember Lokan? His death itself was the trigger for the emergency code that called Algalon. He didn't just spring rebuilt from the Forge of Wills because of a fail safe. Why would the Titan's give such a failsafe to the Aspects when their job was to mold and observe the mortal world? And not to more important jobs like keeping Yogg-Saron from devouring everything like was Lokan's old job?
    You're probably right, I totally forgot about the other Titan creations. I wonder what the afterlife in the Warcraft universe is though. Was it ever confirmed that demons merely get banished into the Twisting Nether when dying?

    Also, I've read a nice post about the afterlife part of lore today, I was at work though and did it from my phone so I can't find it right now... There was something mentioned about "binding" your spirit to the plane you dedicate your life to, like the Shamans remaining in the elementals/the world itself, druid spirits staying in nature and stuff. Oh yeah, I remember now. It was in a thread about Sylvanas and her death dooming her into pure darkness, just like Arthas. The theory makes even more sense then since those two obviously bound their spirits to quite some darkness over time.
    Last edited by Feio; 2013-02-01 at 05:07 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Feio View Post
    Also, I've read a nice post about the afterlife part of lore today, I was at work though and did it from my phone so I can't find it right now... There was something mentioned about "binding" your spirit to the plane you dedicate your life to, like the Shamans remaining in the elementals/the world itself, druid spirits staying in nature and stuff. Oh yeah, I remember now. It was in a thread about Sylvanas and her death dooming her into pure darkness, just like Arthas. The theory makes even more sense then since those two obviously bound their spirits to quite some darkness over time.
    The afterlife is something that Blizzard does not really like touching on. You have an interesting idea with "binding", and that may be part of it, but the big known afterlife is the Twisting Nether (or astral plane, which seems to be another term).

    Many NPCs make comments about the Nether when they are close to death, and that big swirl in the sky as a ghost is supposed to represent it's hungry maw sucking in spirits. In much older lore, Gul'dan even spoke with spirits that wandered the universe on the "astral plane", and Medivh also walked that path, thus how he knew of the coming Burning Legion invasion that started the Third War.
    Last edited by Grocalis; 2013-02-01 at 05:17 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by maxilian View Post
    These, and as wowpedia say: "First then, players must go forward into the End Time and kill Murozond. Within they'll witness a charred vision of the world should the plan to defeat Deathwing fail. "
    I thought deathwing ends up dying regardless through the combined might of the aspects sacrificing themselves i believe. Deathwing is impaled on Wyrmrest tower in the loading screen as well. Deathwing dies. In Endtime, the world is ruined.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimeir View Post
    I thought deathwing ends up dying regardless through the combined might of the aspects sacrificing themselves i believe. Deathwing is impaled on Wyrmrest tower in the loading screen as well. Deathwing dies. In Endtime, the world is ruined.
    "Endtime" is that Deathwing "wins" but as reward for his victory the Old Gods simply murder him, as he was no longer useful for them after the Hour of Twilight fell and they were released.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    "Endtime" is that Deathwing "wins" but as reward for his victory the Old Gods simply murder him, as he was no longer useful for them after the Hour of Twilight fell and they were released.
    I think he actualy was supposed to kill himself, finishing the job.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I think he actualy was supposed to kill himself, finishing the job.
    Yep, DW wanted everything to die and suffer, including himself.

  17. #57
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Yes he was. "Endtime" is not Murozond's timeline.
    Deathwing was never defeated in End Time. He won, the Hour of Twilight happened as the old gods planned. The reason he's dead and impaled in Wyrmrest is because the old gods... discarded him, so to speak (also known as, ALL aspects must die, including Deathwing). Murozond doesn't belong to that timeline, but the heroes of Azeroth didn't defeat Deathwing in that one either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  18. #58
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    All dragon forms are present during the Madness of Deathwing fight.
    Sometimes I think I should have rolled a Priest....


  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I think he actualy was supposed to kill himself, finishing the job.
    Well I would still call that getting murdered by the Old Gods, they just told him to do it.

  20. #60
    Way to derail a thread, we really need a lore board on these forums!

    Speaking of which, where is Deathwing's corpse? Has this been answered?

    EDIT: just went to wowpedia. Cheap way going with "oh, he disappeared and parts of his armor were left behind".
    Last edited by Feio; 2013-02-01 at 05:44 PM.

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