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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    Haha, lower the CD, extend the duration make it so you just need to remember to hit the button.
    Should make it an toggle button and rename it seal of avenging wrath

  2. #42
    fury warriors currently stomp rets.

    warriors scale better than ret.

    by the time 5.5 is out we might be a solid 15-20% behind fury if nothing changes. which makes justifying a raid slot kinda difficult. it isnt a great idea to handicap your raid dps with a subpar spec, with better options available. unless your GM *really* loves you and can ignore that you play ret. lets be real, people competing for world firsts arent exactly going out of their way to recruit retribution paladins.

    utility? that holy paladin over there brings it anyway.
    Last edited by Moradim; 2013-02-03 at 02:02 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by gilfer View Post
    Should make it an toggle button and rename it seal of avenging wrath
    Better yet, two stances: Avenging stance and Wrath stance... toggles between Avenging Wrath and Holy Avenger.

  4. #44
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    I hope the put the slow for light's hammer it since they fucked ret in the aoe slow department when they nerfed the hell out of HotR.
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    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
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    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I hope the put the slow for light's hammer it since they fucked ret in the aoe slow department when they nerfed the hell out of HotR.
    It still won't be competitive unless it's a really good slow like 70%, or if they make it a root initially for a few seconds at least.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Alandrin View Post
    It doesn't change at all the PVE problems. We will remain a burst class. We do a lot of damage at the start then bugger all for 2/3 mins then a burst again, then bugger all.

    We may well scale well later on in the expansion, but other classes do as well Warriors always scale massively towards the end.
    Blizz has made specs this way deliberately. Re-roll if you don't like how the spec is fundamentally designed, IMO.

  7. #47
    Stood in the Fire Shibuya's Avatar
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    Rets best pvp class on PTR atm :/

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Shibuya View Post
    Rets best pvp class on PTR atm :/
    Highly doubt that.

  9. #49
    I find it funny that Blizzard mentioned as far back as Wrath that they wanted to move some of Rets damage from burst to sustained and 2 expansions later they are still mostly burst with little sustained.

  10. #50
    They just need to give ret cleanse back. Shadowpriests get cleanse (an aoe cleanse, no less) and seem like a much better choice in any situation than a ret. I know you can't compare one ability to another, but for how squishy ret is, seems like something drastic needs to happen.

    A cleanse on a 2 min cooldown is nice, but it also means you lose that 2 min cooldown. It's a tradeoff, where ret needs a buff. Give us cleanse. Hell put it on a 15 or 30s cooldown even. Give us a glyph: Cleanse now removes one magical effect in addition to its current effects. Increases cooldown to 30 seconds.

    That would be amazing.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varabently View Post
    They just need to give ret cleanse back. Shadowpriests get cleanse (an aoe cleanse, no less) and seem like a much better choice in any situation than a ret. I know you can't compare one ability to another, but for how squishy ret is, seems like something drastic needs to happen.

    A cleanse on a 2 min cooldown is nice, but it also means you lose that 2 min cooldown. It's a tradeoff, where ret needs a buff. Give us cleanse. Hell put it on a 15 or 30s cooldown even. Give us a glyph: Cleanse now removes one magical effect in addition to its current effects. Increases cooldown to 30 seconds.

    That would be amazing.
    The problem is that is utility that won't get us brought to an RBG team, most likely. It'll help in the 3's department, but RBG's already have 3-4 heals on your team with cleanses. =/

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Varabently View Post
    They just need to give ret cleanse back. Shadowpriests get cleanse (an aoe cleanse, no less) and seem like a much better choice in any situation than a ret. I know you can't compare one ability to another, but for how squishy ret is, seems like something drastic needs to happen.

    A cleanse on a 2 min cooldown is nice, but it also means you lose that 2 min cooldown. It's a tradeoff, where ret needs a buff. Give us cleanse. Hell put it on a 15 or 30s cooldown even. Give us a glyph: Cleanse now removes one magical effect in addition to its current effects. Increases cooldown to 30 seconds.

    That would be amazing.
    It really is complete nonsense how Shadowpriests got to keep mass dispel and we lost one of our most important tools. Cleanse made Ret somewhat playable in tBC when we were horrible in pretty much any other respect.

  13. #53
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketsauce View Post
    I really like starting Elegon at 356k dps and ending at 166k dps.

    I also like those dips down to 84k dps, and then doing 843k dps in the final burn phase.

    To say my WoL looks like a roller coaster would be an understatement. The RetCoaster, Now with Higher Peaks and Lower Dips!

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2758&e=3204
    I'm really interested in your definition of roller coaster WoL. I see a damage peak at 350k at the beginning, evening out between 70k and 90k, then once CDs are back up a jump to 370k, evening out to 90k+, jump to 800k+ for execute.

    Monk started at 230k, dipped to 30k, back up to 144k, down to 88k, up to 210k, dip in between phases, jump to 350k, dip to 40k, then a back and forth bouncing between 110k and 230k, then a jump to 600k for execute.

    The Mage has about six jumps in DPS, most likely for minor CDs, then dips lower than you at a low of 36k. Final burst at 680k.

    Shaman burst up to 350k in beginning, with a bunch of dips between 40k and 120k until next CDs, at which point he jumps to 350k again. Rinse repeat then 766k peak for execute.

    Not even going to go over the DK, he continuously bounces between 50k and 130k with an execute of 400k.

    Last your warrior keeps flattening out at 70k as well, except for a bunch of random jumps.


    So, now that we have analyzed your entire raid, not just you, do you think your "RetCoaster" is any more extreme than the other classes? With the exception of your insane execute, you don't burst higher than several classes in the guild and simply don't have as many peaks as they do. On the other hand, you have a consistent DPS output of 80k+ in between CDs, while almost every other class in your raid dips below 40k at several points during the fight, points during which you stay at 80k+.

    It seems that Ret has some of the most consistent sustained damage out of any class, while being less randomly bursty than Warriors, DKs, Ele Shamans, etc. This entire thing is actually starting to seriously puzzle me, as Rets have been bitching about TERRIBLE sustained damage ever since MoP launched. Then I check out actual logs, and you guys are the most consistent class out there. Not as many jumps as other classes in between CDs, but also not nearly as many dips as other classes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 03:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gilfer View Post
    should add a buff button for mage class at the end.
    Quit with the bitching, Mages have been receiving nerfs all expansion long. Fire was nerfed significantly in 5.1 and through hotfixes while Arcane is getting nerfed in 5.2,

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    I'm really interested in your definition of roller coaster WoL. I see a damage peak at 350k at the beginning, evening out between 70k and 90k, then once CDs are back up a jump to 370k, evening out to 90k+, jump to 800k+ for execute.

    Monk started at 230k, dipped to 30k, back up to 144k, down to 88k, up to 210k, dip in between phases, jump to 350k, dip to 40k, then a back and forth bouncing between 110k and 230k, then a jump to 600k for execute.

    The Mage has about six jumps in DPS, most likely for minor CDs, then dips lower than you at a low of 36k. Final burst at 680k.

    Shaman burst up to 350k in beginning, with a bunch of dips between 40k and 120k until next CDs, at which point he jumps to 350k again. Rinse repeat then 766k peak for execute.

    Not even going to go over the DK, he continuously bounces between 50k and 130k with an execute of 400k.

    Last your warrior keeps flattening out at 70k as well, except for a bunch of random jumps.


    So, now that we have analyzed your entire raid, not just you, do you think your "RetCoaster" is any more extreme than the other classes? With the exception of your insane execute, you don't burst higher than several classes in the guild and simply don't have as many peaks as they do. On the other hand, you have a consistent DPS output of 80k+ in between CDs, while almost every other class in your raid dips below 40k at several points during the fight, points during which you stay at 80k+.

    It seems that Ret has some of the most consistent sustained damage out of any class, while being less randomly bursty than Warriors, DKs, Ele Shamans, etc. This entire thing is actually starting to seriously puzzle me, as Rets have been bitching about TERRIBLE sustained damage ever since MoP launched. Then I check out actual logs, and you guys are the most consistent class out there. Not as many jumps as other classes in between CDs, but also not nearly as many dips as other classes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 03:29 PM ----------



    Quit with the bitching, Mages have been receiving nerfs all expansion long. Fire was nerfed significantly in 5.1 and through hotfixes while Arcane is getting nerfed in 5.2,
    Take it from someone who is in a bit better guild with good/skilled players at every class. I used to at least top burst at the beginning of the fight and now I am 3rd-4th behind Boomkins/Ele, and other really strong burst classes. I now settle at ~10th in BiS gear just above initiates and some lesser skilled or dead players. Granted we have a very strong DPS roster, we still don't have more than 1 mage (which is a guaranteed win over a ret paladin) and only ~1-2 warlocks. The Simcraft results are pretty accurate single target, it's just the idiots that try and dispute it don't realize that the Simcraft is for literally training dummy DPS and no movement. The thing is that the classes that already "outclass" us single-target also do better cleave/AOE damage.

    All in all me and others are hoping that Blizzard is sincere with their "we will be fixing damage values towards the end of the PTR". As always it will probably be a 5% buff to 2H weapon spec or some shit and won't really fix fundamental QoL fixes such as inquisition in PvP or complete clunky shit cleave, I'm looking at you Hammer of the Righteous.

  15. #55
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post

    Quit with the bitching, Mages have been receiving nerfs all expansion long. Fire was nerfed significantly in 5.1 and through hotfixes while Arcane is getting nerfed in 5.2,
    Those are pve nerfs. Name one substaintial PvP nerf. I'm pretty sure at least 90% of them were reverted, most notably blanket silences.

  16. #56
    First of all you can't use elegon to talk about the "Ret rollercoaster". The fight has a stacking damage buff, and periods where you don't have much to DPS, ie when towers go down, and running in and out of the platform. Not to mention that Rets drop like a stone compared to other classes when switching targets. Yes we dip without CDs, but every class does. We ARE CD reliant, but Rets always have been.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  17. #57
    Stood in the Fire fooliuscaesar13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeActionTess View Post
    I just want Divine Intervention back and I'm cool.
    this!!!!!
    i miss DI

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    First of all you can't use elegon to talk about the "Ret rollercoaster". The fight has a stacking damage buff, and periods where you don't have much to DPS, ie when towers go down, and running in and out of the platform. Not to mention that Rets drop like a stone compared to other classes when switching targets. Yes we dip without CDs, but every class does. We ARE CD reliant, but Rets always have been.
    There are other classes that drop dps much worse than us, but yes, I agree. Just try playing a rogue or a feral in PVE on target swap fights, IDK how people do it, honestly.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    There are other classes that drop dps much worse than us, but yes, I agree. Just try playing a rogue or a feral in PVE on target swap fights, IDK how people do it, honestly.
    Pool energy mostly. I played a feral in wrath and beginning of cata. It was different then, but it wasn't terrible. Also rogues have Redirect on a 1 min CD.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  20. #60
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    I'd like you to check the current PVE situation (all t14h bosses) and think over your "middle of the pack" sentence once again.
    I don't understand why people pay so much attention to where a class is on the stacked rankings. The actual DPS difference between all of the melee specs, except for Rogues, is less than 5%. Now considering all of the different variables that go into raiding, less than 5% is hardly a huge difference. Add to that the problem that there are probably far more good rogues, warriors, and DK's out there than Rets, and the difference really isn't that huge. Just to make sure people don't misunderstand this statement though, what I mean is that Warriors, DK's and Rogues have always attracted a high amount of players to their DPS specs for serious raiding. Sure there are more Paladins than Rogues out there, but a lot of those Paladins are most likely Holy and Prot. Ret hasn't been perceived to be a good raiding spec for a long time, so most people that are serious about raiding probably go towards some of the more consistently perceived strong classes of Rogue, DK, Warrior. This creates an effect where the lower end of the top 200 of those classes are probably more skilled than the lower end of Rets.

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