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  1. #81
    Well, since they have admitted that the hybrid tax no longer applies, I can see only one fast way to save the expansion without hotfixes backpedaling.
    Remove completely all the healing arsenal from Rets( maybe keep WOG) and buf directly the dps abilities. This will recreate the profile of the spec as a holy warrior. A melee twohander with holy damage attacks in their disposal. This way you touch the DK idea of a warrior with spell dps abilities but distinguished enough as a twohander only and in holy department.
    Last edited by catablitz; 2013-02-04 at 07:05 PM.

  2. #82
    Its so simply why there is no love for Rets


    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Why does Ghostcrawler hate paladins?
    A ret paladin killed his parents.
    - Blizzcon 2011


    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

    Q: Is Ret OP?
    A: Perhaps. We think Ret's dps isn't abnormally high in PvE, and may not even be high in PvP over the course of a long fight. Where we are worried is how much damage Ret can do up front. It's also Holy damage, which isn't a big deal when you're considering a fully sundered mob, but can turn into a lot of damage in PvP.

    Q: Are we going to nerf Ret?
    A: TO THE GROUND BABY. Okay, not really, but sometimes I can't resist. We'll see how much that quote comes back to haunt me. We will probably be making some changes soon, perhaps even hotfixes. We want to be very surgical about what we do. We don't want to overdo it, and we don't want to hurt their sustained PvE damage. When we've decided, I'll make sure you all know.

    Q: Why did it take us this long to admit there was a problem when EVERYONE knew about it?
    A: A couple of weeks ago there were some bugs with weapon equipping that caused some problems that of course were being exploited. We didn't want to nerf Ret TO THE GROUND BABY only to discover that the weapon problem was causing 90% of it.

    Q: Enough about Ret. Unholy death knights are worse!
    A: That wasn't a question, but we think we have Unholy in a better place now. We made some changes to a few deep talents (that the DK community is already aware of, so don't fret) to get Unholy's dps more in line. Also, you aren't going to see any PvP DKs for a long time, so we need to focus on paladins for now.

    Q: Hi. Thanks for the update. While you're here, can I ask you all these other offtopic questions about paladins or the game in general?
    A: ...
    - Woltk Beta Facts Thread




    /facepalm

  3. #83
    Something that really pissed me off is how they flat-out said Affliction Warlocks and Arcane Mages are OP, but they're not "too OP" so they're not going to nerf them at all until 5.2, but Ret 4-set was something they just had to nerf in the middle of the tier. They better not do anything like that again.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I mean, is that really why people choose a class? REALLY? Spell effects and flash, not substance? Are we at a child pageant? It reminds me of the days in Vanilla when you could make a fortune selling shitty enchants in trade by putting "GIEFS KEWL GLOW!" at the end of your sales pitch. Me? I'll stick with Crusader, and it's boring white aura over minor beast-slaying anyday...to follow this long metaphor. Give me something with substance, usable utility and notable power increase over something that looks cool any day of the week.
    I have a Ret Paladin who also raids with me, and that was the explanation he gave why he plays a Paladin. Like it or not, this is the mentality that most people have towards class choices. I myself like to melee and sometimes heal. Nearly any game that gives me this choice I end up going that route. It's just my play style. For some people it's all about what's considered the most over powered.

    A Flashyness
    B Mechanics
    C Most powerful

    Not everyone has to have good reasons for what they choose. I mean lots of people buy iPhones and don't have good reasons for doing so. Why get a black car which makes it harder for others to see at night? You don't have a good reason, it's just cause.

    Given that GC wanted to work DS into ret's rotation because "a lot of paladins* love DS cause it looks so cool and flashy" *SOURCE NEEDED, I guess I shoudn't be surprised that people clamor for looks over substance, but can we NOT balance a class around who has the flashier spell effects? He already said "sorry, we cannot/will not edit your burst cooldowns to lower times because we don't want that much flash on the screen at once". Really? THAT'S the reason? Not for game balance, or stack rankings, not for PVP equality or encounter design? No, god forbid we fix burst damage because GC doesn't want to overload us with sparkles.
    I personally would like to see Templar's Verdict become 100% Holy damage, but obviously not at 275% weapon damage. Would be good against plate in PvP. Then again I would love to see the weapon glow golden as well, when you use it.

    The obsession with Divine Storm is because it does sound cool, and looks cool. Not gonna lie, people don't have a good reason to make it a consistent part of Rets rotation.

    Same with the proposed back-line fixes to rogues if/when this doesn't provide a rise in class population: "Rogues get a bit of love in 5.2,but what if history holds and their pop still doesnt grow.What will be your next step if any?
    Great question and we don't have an answer to share yet. We are looking at more exciting visuals."
    Surely, THIS will revitalize the class.
    People who play Rogues are typically the kind of player that likes to play over powered classes. Rogues usually had a history of this, plus they could gank just about anyone. They can't do that anymore, so players moved onto Mages and Warriors. They lost their appeal.

    Problem is that there's a lot more classes then there was since Vanilla release. So under representations are going to happen much more often as new classes get introduced.

  5. #85
    paladins are okay they dont need a buff

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlurker911 View Post
    paladins are okay they dont need a buff
    I feel sorry for the things some people here are going to say to you.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  7. #87
    At this point in 5.2 development, we are greatly slowing down on class mechanic changes.
    So chance of ret getting any sort of decent buffs, pretty much just went down to 0.

    But hey, don't worry guys, they managed to sneak a mage buff in before they stopped most class development for 5.2

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
    So chance of ret getting any sort of decent buffs, pretty much just went down to 0.

    But hey, don't worry guys, they managed to sneak a mage buff in before they stopped most class development for 5.2
    Yeah seriously, mages needed a survivability buff that even a complete retard could use. Mages get more attention than any other class, I swear. They're the only ones mentioned today except a little excerpt about prot paladins.

  9. #89
    We still have not completed our tuning pass. You’ll know we're in the midst of it when you start to see a lot of PTR notes with number tweaks. Having said that, if you have specific concerns about PTR (not live) numbers, and you have some kind of mathematical evidence to back those concerns up, please let us know.
    Still tuning the numbers, but this p much guarantees nothing "new" is on the table for paladins/ret. This means no cool changes, same boring cleave, same "fun" issues I talked about.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlurker911 View Post
    paladins are okay they dont need a buff
    You cant fool us Ghostcrawler. We know your here now

  11. #91
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoodrogue View Post
    Still tuning the numbers, but this p much guarantees nothing "new" is on the table for paladins/ret. This means no cool changes, same boring cleave, same "fun" issues I talked about.
    It's not just even about the "fun" of the spec. The spec is just crippled.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    It's not just even about the "fun" of the spec. The spec is just crippled.
    I kind of agree. I had tons of fun in Wrath, and THEN came Cata and I was actually about to quit, but this IS WoW, no one quits. I ended up persevering through it, but stuck wishing I would have just played my DK. At this point there is no going back, I have full BiS gear, and the patch isn't going to last that long to get my DK geared up.

  13. #93
    So do we still go for haste for tanking?

    Paladin
    To stave off the controversial Protection haste issue, we are making a chance to Grand Crusader to proc from dodge and parry at 30% instead of CS and HotR at 20%. This will improve dodge and parry slightly for active mitigation purposes without negating the +haste slant that many paladins have taken.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    So do we still go for haste for tanking?
    Yes. /10char
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  15. #95
    Pandaren Monk
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    1,951
    Quote Originally Posted by Palmolive View Post
    So do we still go for haste for tanking?
    Yes, you do, but not sure why you posted that in a Ret thread. Lol.
    They just made dodge/parry not as crappy, but I'm not sure how much theorycrafted has been done on it yet. I think Blizzard is aiming to let you make the choice for yourself, two playstyles.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    Yes, you do, but not sure why you posted that in a Ret thread. Lol.
    They just made dodge/parry not as crappy, but I'm not sure how much theorycrafted has been done on it yet. I think Blizzard is aiming to let you make the choice for yourself, two playstyles.
    If you're tanking trash, or even a fast hitting boss, it will be a net gain for decent gear.
    If you're tanking a slow hitting boss, or boss that has long casts, it will be a small nerf.
    If you're tanking a magic boss (Lei Shi, etc), it will be a large nerf.
    If you're offtanking, you will get no procs.

    Using my gearset here: ~504 ilvl, ~30% dodge+parry before procs/buffs
    30% proc off of 30% avoidance means 9% chance to proc a GC AS per incoming hit.

    On a boss that hits every 2 seconds, you should see 2.7 PPM of GC AS with this.
    On a boss that hits every 1.5 sec, you should see 4.05 PPM.
    On a boss that hits every 1.0 sec, you should see 5.4 PPM.

    For reference, with a moderate haste level and CS/HotR CD of 4.0 seconds, you should see 0.2*15= 3.0 PPM of GC AS on live.

    There is no noted ICD per Blizz, as they stated that the ability can and will be overpowered on trash (like warrior's Revenge). This should offset the penalty of it NOT proc'ing at all while off-tanking/tank swapping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Which is exactly the thing that pissing me off...because we only have one dps spec if we are like druids things will be way much better.

    One more thing that I don't get it..which is happening since the dawn of time in this game....why whenever something is not right about ret either dps wise or self heal or whatever it takes months and months to be fixed. I mean even before patch 5.1 when it was ptr we knew that retri will suffer so much with the pvp power nerf of self heal we knew about it before the official release of the patch....then booom 1 or 2 months later Blizz noticed "Hey ret self heal is bad let us buff it next patch" I mean we players who don't work in blizz company saw that we had the vision of ret self heal will be gimped why not heed us when we exactly know what will happen even before the patch release why we must wait 1 or 2 or even 3 months to get a fix? got what I mean?
    Well, I've been saying pretty much this for a very long time now.. 2-3 times I've quit WoW for a few months, up to a year, pissed off by such terrible decisions (well, I've called them incompetence deeds).

    It's much more cynical than that, I'm afraid, and we see this in the real world: you do and finish your job perfectly, you get paid A amount. But if you don't, you get paid A amount + you make an additional contract for "repairs" for B amount + you make an additional contract for "repairs" for C amount + ... Do you get the idea? If they get it right with everything, they could close the development divisions down and let only the servers techies on payroll.

    Oh, more on the cynical part: how do they keep millions of subscribers glued to this game? Well, while other games march on "fun and whatever-the-player-likes", Blizzard falsely considers to be fun the tons of frustration they pour into said subscribers (dailies, reputation grind, currency caps, shitty rolls on gear drops etc etc). You know what? Their business model works, because humans apparently like to be lied, carrot-ridden, abused and, hell, they even like it !

  18. #98
    Thought this expansion was supposed to be an "active" play style while in ret for the most part its bust at the start then...... sit around and wait for my hp generators to come of cd.....

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRaven View Post
    Well, I've been saying pretty much this for a very long time now.. 2-3 times I've quit WoW for a few months, up to a year, pissed off by such terrible decisions (well, I've called them incompetence deeds).

    It's much more cynical than that, I'm afraid, and we see this in the real world: you do and finish your job perfectly, you get paid A amount. But if you don't, you get paid A amount + you make an additional contract for "repairs" for B amount + you make an additional contract for "repairs" for C amount + ... Do you get the idea? If they get it right with everything, they could close the development divisions down and let only the servers techies on payroll.

    Oh, more on the cynical part: how do they keep millions of subscribers glued to this game? Well, while other games march on "fun and whatever-the-player-likes", Blizzard falsely considers to be fun the tons of frustration they pour into said subscribers (dailies, reputation grind, currency caps, shitty rolls on gear drops etc etc). You know what? Their business model works, because humans apparently like to be lied, carrot-ridden, abused and, hell, they even like it !
    That is sort of true, people are indeed addicted to drama. So, they kind of probably want to walk a fine line between some frustration but not too much. That being said, I just wish we didn't have to be one the specs they use to infuse the game with controversy.

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