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  1. #61
    Marked for Death would be a lot better if it was properly resetting it's CD. For instance, on Magheera(sp?) when a head dies, M4D doesn't reset. Quite annoying.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahdehl View Post
    TLDR - You played with terrible rogues who didn't know how to maximize cleave/extra dps. Also, Hagara had no cleave.
    Idd, hagara had no cleave and cata's sub had advantage because of SStep and better burst during the 10 secs burn phase (the burst is gone now with new SV mechanic, bstab/ambush hit for nothing and had their crit rate boosting talents removed and all dmg has been moved to finishers), i used sub hemo build on hc morchok with talents in improved recup and enveloping shadows to be able to stay on him during black blood phase" and crushed all other dps on this fight, sub was better on spine because of burst (retri palas had more burst btw) and because kspree was messy and caused you to attack tentacles and bloods instead of tendon, other than that combat was king on zon'ozz for cleaving tentacle and boss, Yor for cleaving mana void, Ultraxion, Warmaster where you could cleave boss and drake with tanks tanking them close and Madness.
    Last edited by D3athsting; 2013-02-06 at 02:02 PM.

  3. #63
    Herald of the Titans T Man's Avatar
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    From the bosses I tested, a lot do not allow backstabing so yeah, hemo in the face most of the time.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by T Man View Post
    From the bosses I tested, a lot do not allow backstabing so yeah, hemo in the face most of the time.
    That sucks. i was planning to switch to sub for next patch just hope that hemo spam will be viable

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by T Man View Post
    From the bosses I tested, a lot do not allow backstabing so yeah, hemo in the face most of the time.
    About time for ppl to agree with me that sub is a half spec? Spamming hemo instead of bstab is like a fire mage spamming scorch instead of fireball, absurd...
    I think it's about time for GC and Hazzikostas (encounter designer) to sit at a table and decide to either remove positional requirements from bstab or make all bosses attackable from behind, no wonder if sub will still be the underdog with the next tier...

  6. #66
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Shuriken Toss, hooooo!
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Shuriken Toss, hooooo!
    You cannot do it from melee anymore

  8. #68
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    You cannot do it from melee anymore
    At all? I thought the latest change just made it so that the auto-attacks only occured when you're far enough away?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    At all? I thought the latest change just made it so that the auto-attacks only occured when you're far enough away?
    You can perfectly do it in melee range, but "autothrow" of shurikens, triggered by using ST from 10 yds cancelled when you enter melee range.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    You can perfectly do it in melee range, but "autothrow" of shurikens, triggered by using ST from 10 yds cancelled when you enter melee range.
    See old math showing ST in line with or ahead of BS/hemo in entry raid gear :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Shuriken Toss, hooooo!
    BRING BACK THE ST SPAM MATH! There will be MOAR EVISCERATES!

  11. #71
    When you say the bosses don't allow backstabbing- do you mean like they move around and poop fire, so you can still get find weakness up and dance at times, or do you mean they are assless wonders like Ultraxxion? I haven't checked out the new tier yet.

    BRING BACK THE ST SPAM MATH! There will be MOAR EVISCERATES!
    Mastery stacking, stars be schwackin

  12. #72
    From what i've seen:
    megaera - unable to BS
    horridon - lot's of adds, no problems with BS
    iron qon - no problems with BS
    twin consorts - spreading required, apart from that - no problem with BS.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    (retri palas had more burst btw)
    Yeah sure, on what, 5 minute cooldown? That was garbage in comparison to what we had on spine.

  14. #74
    Ret was better than sub on spine

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Draigars View Post
    Ret was better than sub on spine
    Yeah uh no. They had way less overall burst on the tendons because their cds weren't up every time. Unless you are arguing that statement based on them healing or some other side thing, that makes absolutely no sense. Sub rogues and mages were stacked for all of the early spine kills. Never heard of anyone stacking ret paladins, and I am pretty sure that those guilds with the first handful of spine kills could have produced a couple of extra ret palys if they wanted.

  16. #76
    Should have precised: starting from a certain level of gear, that guilds you're talking about couldn't have during their spine progress.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Draigars View Post
    Should have precised: starting from a certain level of gear, that guilds you're talking about couldn't have during their spine progress.
    Doesn't really matter. Ret has cd's up for at most every 2 pops. Pretty much no guilds were getting a plate in a single pop on their first kill except maybe the one they lusted on. So you have cds for 60% of your plates, that isn't anywhere near what a good rogue can put out getting vanish dance on every single plate.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazius View Post
    You can perfectly do it in melee range, but "autothrow" of shurikens, triggered by using ST from 10 yds cancelled when you enter melee range.
    Yeah i was talking about this, sorry for not being clear enough. Anyway - even is ST was viable MfD is really, really great; switching targets is way easier, and keep in mind you will have it always up. Tbh, i think ST was desgned with PvP in mind and never considered as a viable option in PvE.

    Any fight in which we stay a lot of time out of range means we lose a lot of damage, and ST doesn't compensate much.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Doesn't really matter. Ret has cd's up for at most every 2 pops. Pretty much no guilds were getting a plate in a single pop on their first kill except maybe the one they lusted on. So you have cds for 60% of your plates, that isn't anywhere near what a good rogue can put out getting vanish dance on every single plate.
    You very quickly couldn't vanish for every burning tendon phase. Even with its CD cooldown, ret was ahead.

  20. #80
    Many guilds delayed for vanish. Not just vanish- the HOST of two minute cooldowns.

    We didn't do that, but I still hand full find weakness for every single tendon burn phase. I'll leave how as an exercise to the reader :P

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