Hows Sub (PvE) on the PTR?

[Mazius]

MfD is really, really great; switching targets is way easier, and keep in mind you will have it always up.

In current content i'd pick MfD for one fight only - Tsulong HC (i have to play combat with Versality atm). Everywhere else Anticipation clearly wins.

[jtstormrage]

Also, Hagara had no cleave.

Wrong. Iceblocks.

---------- Post added 2013-02-07 at 11:02 AM ----------

so this post started from how sub performs in t15 and u guys argue how sub was in FL / DS ?! so any1 that is on PTR and tested sub can give some insight without cry how sub used to be cuz honestly we all can agree sub will not be as good as it was in DS anytime soon

Agree completely. Lots of people chiming in (including me) and whether Sub was best in DS which is not the intention of the thread.

It would be great to hear from anyone trying Sub on the PTR. However, I suspect that a ~3% buff via SV changes is unlikely to make the spec the single target spec of choice (unfortunately) although hopefully it can do the same damage on some fights so we have a choice.

[Sesshou]

You very quickly couldn't vanish for every burning tendon phase. Even with its CD cooldown, ret was ahead.

You often delayed for 2 min cd when the buff was low. You also vanish first, prep 2nd, vanish will be up for 1st pop on new plate, nothing on 2nd pop 2nd plate, vanish up for 1st pop 3rd plate, prep is back up for 2nd pop. So assuming you aren't holding back for everyone's cooldowns, you at most can't vanish once. You always have dance. Ret wasn't even remotely close, and gear level was irrelevant. Your top options were mages and rogues for bursting that which is why people stacked the crap out of them. If you think ret was anywhere close, you played with some bad mages and rogues.

Wrong. Iceblocks.

Since when is a situation with 5+ targets (and I think there were more than 4 blocks but I honestly can't remember) considered a cleave situation? Thats an AE situation.

[Maelstrom51]

Since when is a situation with 5+ targets (and I think there were more than 4 blocks but I honestly can't remember) considered a cleave situation? Thats an AE situation.

10 man had two ice blocks.

[Sesshou]

10 man had two ice blocks.

Yeah, thats nice. Clearing talking about 25m though.

[Ryme]

Yeah, thats nice. Clearing talking about 25m though.

To be frank, I'm not sure that was made very clear.

[jtstormrage]

I raided 25 man in DS. Combat never used aoe, even on Yorsahj. We cleaved. It is therefore a cleave situation.

Can we get the thread back on track? It is sorely disappointing to keep checking this thread and reading about which spec was best in DS. Who cares? Please can we talk about Sub in 5.2.

Personally I am hoping for more of a damage buff to help Sub because at the moment it is not worth the hassle

[Ryme]

Personally I am hoping for more of a damage buff to help Sub because at the moment it is not worth the hassle

The biggest issue we have is that a significant number of fights are very unfriendly toward to subtlety mechanics - getting behind the boss specifically. This is heart breaking to me as I'm still confident this is the tier we'll see subtlety catch up, especially with the buffs and set bonuses.

[Deleted]

This is heart breaking to me as I'm still confident this is the tier we'll see subtlety catch up.

Well don't forget, there are lots of different people who play this game. I'm sure there are many people out there who will be heartbroken when Assassination isn't the top spec anymore, or when Combat suddenly doesn't live up to the expectations. I personally hated Subtlety with a passion. It wasn't because I couldn't play it or anything, I had quite a few high ranks in previous tiers. But a part of me died every time I was ''forced'' to play Subtlety or when I had to get rid of my Assassination spec. Can't please everyone.

[Ryme]

Indeed, but I don't see Assassination falling behind any time soon at the least I don't see it being as far behind as assassination is right now.

[Deleted]

Honestly they revamped so many mechanics over the years and yet still refuse to even touch Backstab. The positional requirement is stupid and an outdated mechanic and should have been removed years ago.

[tangsour]

Im currently using T14 armour il 499 on ptr.
I am playing Sub and Assasination to see which pans out best for 5.2 progress. On the dummy I am pulling better numbers consistently with sub but these do not translate to encounters. Assasination is just too easy do do decent dps with when moving around.
When i finally get T 15 I`m hopefull Sub will pull enough infront to play as my raid spec. Assasinations poison dots make it very attractive as it adds a lot of uptime to bosses even when moving away. Sub will need to be some way out infront to counter this and make for better boss numbers.
The T 15 bonus looks very attractive to Sub with a very powerful 6 point rupture also for the envenom buff with assasination. I will update when i get T15 and try it out.

[Sesshou]

I raided 25 man in DS. Combat never used aoe, even on Yorsahj. We cleaved. It is therefore a cleave situation.

Can we get the thread back on track? It is sorely disappointing to keep checking this thread and reading about which spec was best in DS. Who cares? Please can we talk about Sub in 5.2.

Personally I am hoping for more of a damage buff to help Sub because at the moment it is not worth the hassle

Um well you should have. There were like 10 targets at times on Yorsaj. FoK was definitely worth hitting on that many.

Now I would agree on Hagara you would just cleave, but its not a cleave situation. Its an AoE situation that you are cleaving on because your AE is such crap that it makes more sense to leave you on the boss for boss damage during which you might as well hit BF.

[Kael]

Let's get back to 5.2 discussion, please? More raid testing coming up in the next few days if anyone has the patience for PTR testing.

[tangsour]

Let's get back to 5.2 discussion, please? More raid testing coming up in the next few days if anyone has the patience for PTR testing.

I have been bashing the dummy for a very long time in ptr. I have 503il with the new T15 set armour. ( I still have junk from 5.1 in ptr too)

OK the new bonus really seems too favour assasination. Even on the dummy ( static) I am pulling much bigger numbers As a poisoner. 74k as opposed to 65k unbuffed no flask or food. There is no doubt i play assasination better as i have been raiding that spec this patch so it`s biased but I play sub ok too.
For Sub: these are all average figures over 5 min cycles on the dummy
Backstab is hitting like a wet fish with 32k average and 64k crits
Evicerates hitting for about 74k normal with 148k crits (2 out of 8 hits with my crit level)
the rupture tick is about 11k normal
Ambush hits quite hard it seems 63k normal hits with 126k crits
I spec anticipation incidentally.

Ill do some LFR stuff as soon as i can get in and feedback.

[D3athsting]

Done some testing on live and i have to say it's pure cr*p on single target and aoe

Infracted - stick to 5.2

[tangsour]

Looks like all the gear in PTR raid finder is scaled to 480 so i have no idea now.

I did a few bosses there but can`t really make a comparison as gear is lower by a long way.


Ill pug a raid if possible and feedback

[Deleted]

I didn't think it was total crap on live when I took it for fun during an MSV Hc run.

I did 107k on Feng, 107k on Garajal, 161k on Elegon, 80k on Spirit Kings

It was behind what I'd do as assassination, but not totally miles. Elegon for some reason was furthest - i think because assassination loves the execute phase with high stacks.

Any further discussion about subtlety on live needs a new thread. I realize this post was a response, but let's cut it HERE.

-Mugajak

[tangsour]

I have been bashing the dummy for a very long time in ptr. I have 503il with the new T15 set armour. ( I still have junk from 5.1 in ptr too)

OK the new bonus really seems too favour assasination. Even on the dummy ( static) I am pulling much bigger numbers As a poisoner. 74k as opposed to 65k unbuffed no flask or food. There is no doubt i play assasination better as i have been raiding that spec this patch so it`s biased but I play sub ok too.
For Sub: these are all average figures over 5 min cycles on the dummy
Backstab is hitting like a wet fish with 32k average and 64k crits
Evicerates hitting for about 74k normal with 148k crits (2 out of 8 hits with my crit level)
the rupture tick is about 11k normal
Ambush hits quite hard it seems 63k normal hits with 126k crits
I spec anticipation incidentally.

Ill do some LFR stuff as soon as i can get in and feedback.

Hey guys, a quickie upodate for those who are interesred.
I managed to finally full gem my gear in thre ptr and got a few drop items. IL is now 504
Whith the recent too assasintaion and gems I am managing now 91k sustained dps on the dummy over 10 min cycles
As sub 84k.
I am either the worlds worst sub rogue or it sucks or a combination of both.
I tried all 3 classes in the ptr lfr and assasination pulls ahead by a lot on most fights with only really good locks ahead of me on most tries.
Sub performs very poorly on boss fights in thrones imo.
I pulled some good numbers as Combat too.
For me i will be going Assination> Combat in 5.2 unless they buff sub alot.