its for those people not into shooters like battlefield and cod and whatever else
its for those people not into shooters like battlefield and cod and whatever else
I enjoy MOBA because it's like a mini-RPG that is over in less than an hour usually. You can play them on a "time budget" and not have the experience ruined
no. If it was not very skill based, everyone and their grandma would play at competitive level. just a "simple" lasthitting is very different between medicore player and pro. even at pro level, you can see the difference between the top teams - Asians, Navi, Empire and those second tier teams
It's also not very skill based at all. The best team in the business does not consist of the best players in the world or
even close. Obviously they are very good at the game, but having good player synergy and coordination is far more superior
than having the best players.
mindgames are skill too. Or do you think baiting someone in CS or SC2 or upgrading caduceus reactor to make your opponent think you build cloak shees is not a skill? Or have you never seen in moba the one player who just turned the teamfight around with an amazing play?EDIT:
a lot of people above are talking about moba skills having a high skill cap and such. Mobas are not about skill, they are about
knowledge. Generally if you are a semi decent player if you know what you want to do, executing it isn't difficult. But if you take
a game like Counter Strike or Starcraft, you have stuff that is 100% about your skill. Like if you are perfect CS player you will
win every single time as you can always hit people in the head and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.
In mobas the "skill shots" are A TON about predicting the movements of the opposing player and no matter how well you aim your stuff
the enemy player can dodge them. It's about mind games and getting used to how your opponent plays.
and that is different in mobas.. how? You think you can be pro if you read few pages about heroes and get couple dozen games? Come back when you think you participate in a big tournament. In SC2 you only play against one opponent, try to predict what 5 different people will do at the same time.In SC2 it's multitasking which is highly skill based and requires a ton of practice to even do half decently. Trying to split your marines
during a big combat, keeping your production up and harassing your opponent with a drop or two is just so much it takes your brain to
a ride.because CS was not like a most played competitive game for like a decade, not at all...Being a skill based games makes a game a great e-sport but drives away the casual players which drives away the money.
---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 12:57 AM ----------
Last edited by Sarevokcz; 2013-02-02 at 12:00 AM.
Just to clarify what exactly skill is:
1.the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
Skill is essentially the ability to apply knowledge. Yes, MOBAs do require skill to play. Mechanical difficulty is just another skill. Learning to aim in a 3D environment is a skill. Being able to react and adapt to a changing situation is a skill. Being able to predict an opponent's movements or next play is a skill. Learning to work in a group is a skill. Learning how to utilize resources available to you and applying that in game is a skill. Reacting quickly is a skill. Being accurate is a skill. Hand-eye coordination is a skill. Knowing when to retreat is a skill. Knowing how to lead is a skill. Responding quickly to orders or team mate's requirements is a skill.
Trying to suggest that MOBA games don't require skill is just silly.
It's like LoL or Dota II but in a third person perspective, feels like it has more action in it.
The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.- George Carlin
AS YOU DON'T NEED TO IRON OUT YOUR MECHANICS FOR 2000 GAMES UNTIL YOU CAN EFFECTIVELY USE YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND
Stop thinking so black and white. It's not about mobas not requiring skill, it's about them requiring less grinding to iron our mechanics to your
muscle memory just to be able to function on semi decent level.
It's a good thing for the genre. It brings more players, which brings more money, which brings more e-sports which brings more players which
brings even more e-sports.
I don't understand why people can't accept that the moba genre isn't the most challenging in terms of raw control and is more focused on
knowledge, teamwork and synergy between the players. Knowing what each hero can do, what you can do and which fights to take and
when to back off.
Surely the "big plays" of individual players happen. But they are in most cases also a good decision instead of perfect 5 meepo control. Like
Magnus hitting 4-5 player RP. It's because of his good positioning and patience to wait for the right moment to blink in. It's based on knowledge.
He knows the range of the enemies, knows which heros are the most crucial to get in to the RP and knows how long he can wait for the perfect
ulti before it's too late. He makes a decision based on that knowledge and the action of hitting blink -> "R" key isn't exactly the most challenging
rpg elements in an easy to play short term format. I see the appeal it has for casual play but I hate watching league, far to formulaic with a very passive laning game. The game needs something to mix up the stale lane format and promote different strategies for early game, late game it picks up alot and some really cool fights are common but the wait is to boring for me.
I get it, you don't like them because they probably took your or so beloved SC2 out of the picture in comparison and do you know why? Because Blizzard doesn't dish out nearly as much money as Riot does for it. Riot has a vision, Blizzard could give two shits otherwise, you're trying to be a hipster and it's failing. It's not a bad genre, sure it has it's community issues but honestly every game does. Lot's of FPS games have horrible communities, every genre does but the reason MOBA is pointed out so much is because of the competitive feel each game has before and when you go in. You just have to take off the blindfold and look, a MOBA requires skill just as much as SC2 but in a different way.
You could say SC2 is like tennis 1v1 and LoL is like Basketball 5v5.
The Runaway. I love my new nickname. Is there a picture of me? Does it look good?
Multiplayer online battle arena = every multiplayer pvp game ever.
I haven't even logged in to SC2 for like 3 seasons or so. I have no bias towards SC2 because I like it
more or anything. It's just my personal experience that Moba games are just easier. There is nothing esle
to it. Same applies to some First person shooters like Quake and CS. [they are harder mechanically than Mobas]
Knowing that a marine has 5 range and shoots stuff doesn't make you physically capable of splitting your army
in a fraction of a second when banelings roll in. The metagame of SC2 does not apply to i.e. your gold league
sister because she isn't capable of executing the required tasks to follow the metagame from the pro scene.
This is not something you can say about moba games. From my experience, especially in League of Legends your
average games tend to mimic the pro scene as much as possible. There aren't things that only very experienced
players do because it's super hard to do.
Exceptions to this are heros like Meepo and Chen. If one would practice 5000 games of Chen or Meepo unit control
they could play the hero on a different level from the majority of players and could evolve the metagame in a way
that lesser players could not replicate it. Because the essential part of it is that you have astonishing 5 Meepo control
Last edited by Shinzai; 2013-02-02 at 01:57 PM.
It requires practice to kick the ball accurately. It requires thousands of games of practice to be able to accurately
pass or shoot the ball. You are completely missing my point here.
You see an opening, you try to pass the ball but fair miserably because you can't kick for shit. This is why even if you
have best game sense in the world if you haven't practice kicking the ball for tens of thousands of times you aren't
able to do it.
You see the goalkeeper hanging around in the left side of the goal. There is 0% chance that he will ever reach the top
right corner if you shoot the ball there. You go for it, the ball misses the entire goal by 10 meters because you can't
kick for shit.
This doesn't happen in moba games after a handful of matches because it's mechanically not very challenging. If you see
5 guys hanging together and you are in a good position you don't miss your big AOE ultimate by accidently clicking it to
a completely wrong position. Once you have enough knowledge and game sense, if you recognize the opening the execution
of the desired action is very simple.
i've played it for 1300 hours now and it just gets better. mostly play with a team who all have played between 1000-2000 hours, and our games dont fit your description of it, u described the lowest of brackets.
I can understand that it can behard to get into, i 've played dota 1 since 2006 i think, i went to HoN when that came out and back to Dota 2 asap when it came out in beta.
It doesn't make the action of going in and using the ultimate any more challenging to execute. It just makes the choice of doing so strategically bad.That's why it's a game of knowledge and game sense. If you would magically know the right actions in every single situation I bet my ass that mostof even remotely competent players could perform in a godlike way.
This doesn't happen in i.e. SC or CS. Even if you know that the best option is to go rush short to A and shoot everyone in the head it doesn't mean you are able to do it. Just because you know that the most effective counter would be to go mass marine and just split perfectly doesn't mean that you are able to do it.
a situation like this:
Even if I'd play the same exact situation 500 times I probably would still lose all those engagements extremely bad. And this is coming from mid masters league player[Tho I'm not as good anymore because I haven't played for a quite a while]. There are no situations in moba games where I couldn't replicate the same exact thing after a handful of tries. Because if I know exactly what I'm supposed to do, doing it is not mechanically challenging. Like if you see a huge AOE ultimate massacring the entire enemy team, I watch the replay and then get thrown in the same situation I can easily blink in at the same time that he did in the replay and hit "R".
Also, though I agree that the sheer mechanical ability to micro 50 units at the same time is impressive, we both know that SC2 games are won via build orders and reacting to your opponents build orders/attacks/defense. Strategy and reacting correctly will beat perfect micro a vast majority of the time, which is why knowing how to react is a skill and reacting quickly is the most important one. The engagements are important, but the fight is won by preparing the right units and having a constant supply. It's not about simply replicating something, it's about putting your knowledge of how to handle changing situations, constantly.
At a level where players are able to micro properly you can win with any strategy just by having better control. I remember some player that did nothing but mass marines for every single game and he still won many times. If your micro is good enough it doesnt matter if your opponent uses the optimal counter strategy. Templars and Banelings dont mean anything if you always split your marines perfectly.